Ice agent shoots woman in the face (pt 2)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

Renee Good. Proof the you can shoot someone and get away with it in Trump’s America.

That YOUR article cherry-picked as a sympathetic case!

Also I’m surprised you didn’t say anything about this:

Immigration agents also can arrest citizenswho allegedly interfered with or assaulted officers. We compiled cases of about 130 Americans, including a dozen elected officials, accused of assaulting or impeding officers

which means your article admits that ICE has the right to arrest US citizens when they obstruct ICE activities

Do you support racial profiling? I would like to know.

"Are you allowed to execute someone because they get in your way?"

Clearly not.

However you are not allowed to hit pedestrians with your 2 ton car because they get in your way either - which she did, albeit more of a glancing blow

It's particularly stupid to do so when they are armed and very unfortunate to do so to someone who was recently badly injured by someone in a car and hence far more likely to react when struck.

Depends. Do you think they should have checked all the white and black workers too? Or just the obvious group of Spanish speakers?

Do you enjoy being a time waster? Maybe they’ll catch that one Slav or that one guy from Ghana!!!

Ok. So you do. It's a great way to be efficient and not waste time, after all.
Fascism is efficient, if nothing else.

When you will admit that 50
citizens detained out of 250,000 is a good rate? I don’t even think that the criminal justice system has such a good track record.

Ooh. People have moved on from arguing that Trump is not a Fascist because he won’t actually do the more extreme or ridiculous things he threatened, it’s just the way he talks. Now we’ve moved to the minimisation stage, where you can’t make an omelette without cracking a few eggs, and it’s really not bad to kill a few people in a good cause. Next we will get regular denials that things are being covered up, people going missing and bare faced lies are being made on a massive scale. Finally, we will move to the argument that the problem is so overwhelming, it needs a more permanent, final solution to deal with it.

Even in America where there is a death penalty, it's reserved for the most serious crimes, and those sentenced wait for decades on Death Row while their case is contested. But here, some Americans are quite comfortable with a woman being executed for 'stupidity ' and for protesting a brutal government policy. They don't think the killing even merits investigation. America is well on its way in its slide to authoritarianism.

Last time I looked it up, the USA has no official language.

In fact, if you take a trip to Puerto Rico, part of America, you will find most people there speak Spanish.

Was there not a thing where Trump said AOC should "go home"

Ahh yes, it was "The squad" he said "should go home". Including AOC.

I too think the thread needs to stay. I hadn't thought about the China/shutting down of free speech issue, but I have seen the vile comments outside of MN. At least on MN, there is still some sanity and compassion.

When Rene's family looks up her murder on social media, and they will, especially given that her eldest is 15, I hope they'll come across some of the more balanced forums and take comfort in the fact that there is still some humanity and sanity in the world, and that a lot of us are appalled by the brutal murder of their relative.

If we start shutting down the discussion because the opinions of MAGA are too unsavoury for us to bear, we leave nothing up but racist, hateful bile, which feeds into MAGA's belief that they are right in what they are doing.

And, of course, the best solution to climate change is also to get rid of all the whiny people who want to be protected from it.

What point are you making? The fact she shouldn’t have been killed is the end point here. The officers had no reason to think their lives were in danger so anything she may have done that merited further action could have been dealt with in another way.

As an officer dealing with the public you’d presumably be prepared for the fact that any individual you could encounter may not be able to hear you, may not understand English, may panic, may have learning difficulties or any number of other factors that mean they may not follow orders, especially in a tense situation.

Personally, I don’t think it matters if she was stupid (although frankly I’m finding it hard to judge someone surrounded by shouting masked men) - if you’re going to arm someone and authorise them to interact with the public on your behalf you need to minimise the risk to the public. The idea he was traumatised isn’t a mitigation either. You can’t be suggesting that it’s reasonable to arm people who have lost a normal sense of proportion and ability to deescalate and the public just have to lump it if someone is unnecessarily killed as a result?

If you can’t speak English, then America is probably not the country you should be living and working in.

I don't understand this argument. America is not, historically, an English-speaking country. Settlers, also known as immigrants, introduced the British language to America.

Do you apply that to the approx 50% of Puerto Ricans who can't speak English ?

You know, American Citizens who were born in America, and live and work in America?

That's about 1.5 million people, in one territory alone. Should they be deported ?

It wasn’t too long ago that if you suggested certain things could happen you were accused of hysteria and treated to a few laughing-crying emojis. All forgotten now that we’re onto cool rationalisation.

I agree that this isn’t the end of that trajectory. Too many people have revealed that they’ll either swallow lies and adapt their thinking to whatever the current truth is or that they actively welcome violent authoritarianism.

The thread where a poster asked if she was unreasonable to worry about travelling to the US with her SEN child to receive an academic award reads in a rather more alarming light now.

As always with these extreme acts of violence followed by media sensationalism and polarised online 'debate' they have a way of further polarising society.

This violent man basically executed a US citizen who was utilising her democratic right to protest. Even if she broke the law in any way (not aware she did) there were lawful ways to deal with her. The ICE killer must have clearly felt entitled to kill a woman at close range as a result of his training, management and work culture. This is state sanctioned murder and will further embolden crazy MAGA types. I'd hate to live in the US now.

"What point are you making?"

As a driver you should not hit people with your 2 ton car.....

Particularly if that person may be in fear of their life.

Not excited, just a little worried. It’s a stupid and entirely easily avoidable situation we’ve put ourselves in.

Do you think the Native Americans created the country you call America? Settlers didn’t actually go to someone else’s country. They built it themselves.

Firstly, she did not hit him, secondly, why is the proportionate response murder rather than taking a side step onto the pavement and out of the path of the car?

Your own laws state that lethal force can only be used when there is an imminent threat to life and no other options exist. There was another option: move the fuck out of the way. It would have taken less time than unholstering his gun and shooting, so it would have been safer for the murderer and the victim. Why are you in support of your own lawmakers ignoring the very laws they are supposed to uphold?

Finally, how do you justify the shots fired through the side window after the agent was well away from the path of the car? What was that if not murder?

America isn’t a country. When people say America they generally mean the United States of America (USA). English is USA’s de facto national language

There is no point going over this any more.

There wasn’t a reasonable threat to his life. If he wasn’t capable of assessing what was a reasonable threat due to trauma he shouldn’t have been armed.

The end.

If they can’t speak English they’ll have an easier time in Puerto Rico, no? But this guy was not from PR. He lived in an ethnic enclave and couldn’t even communicate his status to law enforcement. That’s … suboptimal

Definitely no point discussing any more.

Reform voters take note though, of whom you are in bed with.