Ice agent shoots woman in the face (pt 2)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

Renee Good. Proof the you can shoot someone and get away with it in Trump’s America.

It's obvious. If he had time to shoot her, he had time to step out of the way. If he stepped out of the way then shot her, that's pure revenge.

The argument on Twitter has shifted more towards 'if you don't do what armed men tell you, you deserve all you get'. There was one account yesterday, nearly 100k followers, saying 'let's pretend it's another country. If men with guns surround your vehicle and tell you to get out... they're going to shoot you. In any place, any situation, any power dynamic. Doesn't really matter who they are where it happens'. And it's 'the left's' fault for 'gaslighting themselves out of basic survival instincts'.

Okay, let's pretend it's Britain, and the men with guns are police. It would still be a national scandal if they shot a woman who was trying to drive past them. We're not lawless. We don't shoot people routinely. We're not America.

This doesn't bear thinking about. I feel very sorry for people in the US right now, it must be really scarey.

Yes every argument has been made by both sides.

Vance has just said the Agent will be given "Absolute Immunity" so the USA enters an era of "Shoot to Kill" protestors, with no consequence.

But many on here think this is ok.

No surprise, Trump has been blowing up boats, allegedly carrying drugs, with no evidence provided or sought, no one cares.

He has taken the USA to a level beneath that of China, supported by the Far Right, who we want to govern the UK...

Well sometimes we do have trigger happy cops shooting people , like when Jean Charles De Menezes was racially profiled erroneously identified as a terrorist and shot dead, which some posters think is ' efficient'. But heads rolled for that in the Met.
I hope we don't allow American Trumpists to set our agenda.

This is normalisation of state violence, state violence is portrayed as acceptable or even admirable and inhibition against excessive force is lowered.

Deadly force is not lawful if
The officer stepped into the path of the car.
The car was trying to flee.
The car was moving slowly or stopped.
The officer had time or space to retreat.
The officer fired after the vehicle passed or stopped.

A person’s political activity, protest history or alleged 'agitator' status has ZERO bearing on whether killing a citizen is lawful or not.

With his identity revealed the ICE agent will now have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life. Wonder if he regrets finding himself in the global spotlight.

But near everyone in Puerto Rico speaks Spanish. Why would they not have an easier time there ?

"suboptimal"

Now there is a word that has lots of connotations. Is that a word often used in your world ?

Again, the USA has no official language.

The evidence shows that at best this comment is misguided.
One close video shows that the car missed him completely, the one from distance shows that it may have brushed him, but so slowly it would do no harm.

Stating something unproven and ambiguous as an absolute fact is disingenuous and shows a lack of critical thinking.

You are also insisting as fact that she was blocking in other vehicles, this is not apparent in the footage.

Regardless of whether she had been making a nuisance of herself, it still doesn't mean that an agent of the state can be judge, jury and executioner without trial,shooting to kill with impunity.

Your posts are disturbing to me in their total disregard for objective evidence and the mindless regurgitation of the bile coming from Trump and his bunch of frat boy sycophants.

I'm wondering why there is such a concerted effort on a British parenting website to justify what ICE and Trump are doing? What are people's thoughts? Bots? Spotty keyboard warriors form across the pond? Or our very own Reform supporters? It's a little weird to say the least.

I don’t care if it hasn’t been codified. It is a fact that if you don’t speak English in America, you will not be able to communicate with anyone but those in your ethnic group. You will not be able to do normal things we all take for granted, you will always be reliant on handlers at job sites, etc.

This is the thing that's shocking to me. The glee at the "consequences" of disobeying authoritarianism. I do think a lot of people absolutely love the idea of people being punished for standing up for what they believe in and being forced by the authorities - you see it all the time, in arguments about protestors (about anything), lockdown and conscription - people salivating over the idea of state violence being used to make people comply. A really nasty but seemingly common bit of human psychology. You can see how there were crowds at executions.

It never ceases to amaze me when I hear the arrogance of individuals who have won the birth lottery of being born in a privileged country (very often the result of their very recent ancestors being economic immigrants) banging on about immigration and then often claiming to be god-fearing Christians who believe and uphold the two great commandments.

Selective and hypocritical.

I thought Reform to start with, but after reading the comparison with other dictatorships like China, I do think that's it.

If the few MAGA supporters with more than one brain cell read dissenting opinions, they might reconsider their support. By shutting down debate via getting threads removed or attempting to turn them into a MAGA echo chamber, you create the impression that the majority of people are in support of Trump's lawless, fascist state, which reinforces the idea he is right, because if he were behaving unlawfully or psychotically, people in developed countries would speak out.

No one thinks shooting protestors is ok. Do we need to keep saying that? She didn't 'deserve' it either.

However. In a fast moving volatile situation where one officer is actually hanging onto your door it is surely the best thing to stop and interact with the officer holding the door. All the footage available shows her reversing rapidly
and then driving forward towards the other bloke.

Protestors should clearly use common sense and put safety before anything else.

The stupid mayor telling ICE to 'get the fuck out of Minnosata' doing a great job at calming tensions.

Calming tensions -or in other words let us do wtf we like

Spotty keyboard warriors? Honestly listen to some of you. People have different opinions you must learn how to discuss a tragic but preventable situation like this without silly insults. Trolls/bots/one braincell is all a very immature and desperate.

One close video shows that the car missed him completely, the one from distance shows that it may have brushed him, but so slowly it would do no harm

The bullet only grazed you! Why are you so upset?

You are also insisting as fact that she was blocking in other vehicles, this is not apparent in the footage

She was there to block ICE vehicles specifically. She was part of some anti-ICE activist group. Why else was she blocking the road?

Regardless of whether she had been making a nuisance of herself, it still doesn't mean that an agent of the state can be judge, jury and executioner without trial,shooting to kill with impunity

She was told to get out. She chose to flee while an agent was in front of her SUV. She could have (and did) hit him. These are not unforeseen consequences.

Engage in intelligent debate, backed up with evidence instead of regurgitating meaningless soundbites and people will stop thinking you're a badly coded bot/AI.

All the footage available shows her reversing rapidly and then driving forward towards the other bloke

Have you seen the nyt analysis?

I think the post above by @LlttledrummergirI applies here too. Seriously disturbing.

Jacob Frey is a hero, standing up to Trump's thugs, btw.

Terrified? She was well known for being around these situations. Basically put herself amongst it. I happen to think that the story being pedalled from the government is totally false - the ICE agent was never in real danger of being run over - at least not to the extent that she needed to be shot three times in the face. But let’s be clear that also the story being told about her being an oblivious housewife on her way to the shops is also BS.

Quote :"....you will always be reliant on handlers at job sites, etc."

Not in Puerto Rico or other majority Spanish speaking areas.

Does ICE not have Spanish speaking officers ? No Spanish speaking cops ?

A quick online search, Texas, for example. 30% Spanish speakers.

In any case, the woman who ICE shot dead knew English. And I presume the officer who shot her dead speaks English.

I am just trying to pull you back onto the subject of the thread here. You trying to derail is "suboptimal", to use your own word.

I was talking about this with DH last night and he said
She clearly tried to ram him with her car. No sympathy.
and I honestly feel like I hate him a bit now. I cannot begin to understand how someone can watch what happened and see anything other than murder.

You must surely be aware that this is not just silly 'mumsnet thick trolls/bots/spotty keyboard warriors', that there is infatct widespread different opnions and many clips that show her driving erratically and heading towards an armed officer?

She was well known for being around these situations

I didn't know that. Any chance you can share where you got that intel from, please?

Where is the evidence of this? The only people who have stated this are Trump mouthpieces, and they've yet to produce anything that proves it.

Her friends and neighbours say this wasn't true. Her social media didn't show any political extremism. Her family says this isn't true.

The only erratic driving was after she'd been shot in the face. She travelled about 10ft before that.