To be alarmed at Starmers plans

[Rubytuesday77]

Anybody else worried about his ongoing plans for deeper involvement in Ukraine. In an interview yesterday he said he intends to send our troops out there. Surely this would mean we’d be at war with Russia! Anyone else very concerned.

From where are you getting the figure of 1.7 million?

Trump is on the case, everything will be fine

John Meirsheimer

hmmmm. I can't see UK troops on the frontline in Ukraine. But we are already in a hybrid war with Russia. The cyber attacks on our infrastructure such as health and education. Then there are foreign flagged ships drifting up and down European sea routes with anchors aweigh. Incendiary devices at DHL hubs due to go on planes. That's not even mentioning the targeting and killing of Russians in Europe by Putin's stooges. The cavalier attitude of the disposal of the perfume bottle containing novichok after the Skripal attack tells you everything (not incompetence) - many more people could have died.

It came up on my facebook feed. Starmer was being interviewed by a sky reporter. Would it still not stoke anxiety with the link? probably more so.

@Rubytuesday77 "It came up on my facebook feed. Starmer was being interviewed by a sky reporter. Would it still not stoke anxiety with the link? probably more so."

"Anxiety" would only be "stoked" if there was evidence of what he actually said. Loads of ideas are considered-most are rejected.

Only those that have chosen to join the armed forces would go, it's literally what they are paid to do. Or are we paying for nothing now because they're all someone's children so should be kept on home shores? Not really much point having any armed forces in that instance.

Your quoting those who are widely held to be on the Kremlin payroll

Let me be clear for you

It's not about NATO. Ukraine isn't in NATO

Yanukovich ran away.

The Ukranian government voted to impeach him

Russia broke the Minsk accords

Russia armed separatists

Russia invaded a sovereign country and is currently destroying lives and cities

What happens in Ukraine, whatever alliances Ukraine want and however Ukraine exists is FUCK ALL to do with Russia.

and Russia needs to stop moving westwards and encroaching on NATO's border.

No, it is very important that people can hear or read the statement you are referring to - otherwise how can they know if they share your understanding of what was said?

@halfpastten The conflict in Gaza is also not as straightforward as the MSM lead us to believe and as you are undoubtedly well aware like all of us it did not start in October 2023. The reason why "everyone" and by that I mean largely the world outside G7 pushes for ceasefire and applies so much pressure on Netanyahu and his supporters is because Israel in its bid "to defend itself" unleashed what we can only refer to as genocide on the Palestinians living in Gaza. Israel was attacked by HAMAS and claims that 1,200 Israelis lost their lives in that attack and nobody defends HAMAS in that. However in response Israel decided to deploy the strategy of collective punishment on 2.5 million people living in Gaza most of which are now displaced as refugees, their homes destroyed and many of their children killed. What you refer to as 1.7M young Ukrainian men are people which the Ukrainian government sent to the frontlines to fight. In that sense, they are soldiers of their army. The "tiny number" of people killed in Gaza are civilians killed as a result of Israel's strikes on their homes, hospitals, schools. More than half of those people are children and many are under the age of 12.

These are just some horror stories from Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/x3QpRMDw3OY

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@wholettheturnipsburn any evidence that Prof Sachs is on the Kremlin's payroll or is that another hearsay in the MSM?

Oh, so you are just being cavalier with the lives of people 👌🏼

You'll be in the front line then! Of course we shouldn't be stoking up the war when Trump and Zelensky are both starting to talk about peace.

Look, if he says 'no we won't send troops' that just plays into Putin's hands. He also knows Trump's stance will be influential and Trump himself has extended his own deadline for solving the conflict from 1 day to 6 months 🙄 So it makes sense to hedge your bets at this point. Everyone needs to calm down.

Other than the Russian apologist posts on here, and they can just slink off. We see you and we see what you are.

I said widely held, as I'm not privy to the Kremlin payroll.

Maybe it's kompromat then

I am more worried about his solution to knife crime. The man should not be in charge of the UK and I wish we had Donald Trump instead because he has his own fragrance
https://gettrumpfragrances.com

@wholettheturnipsburn I agree that it's not just about NATO but I am curious as to what your view is of what has been going on in Donbass since 2014?

@wholettheturnipsburn ah ok, I see... Thanks

He didn't say that though, did he? 🙄 What he stated was he'd be willing to send peacekeepers over there after the war comes to an end. This demonstrates the need for links to be posted when making such hyperbolic threads.

This thread has just reminded me, I've not sent my monthly donation to the Ukrainian armed forces yet. Getting on it now!

Like the arming of separatists by Russians?

The shooting down of a passenger plan?

Like the little green men who were definitely not russian and were definitely on holiday.

Like the start of the Russian invasion.

Is that what you mean?

Absolutely. U24 get a least two donations

Posters here tend to think Jeffrey Sachs is a Putin apologist rather than an economist with a special interest in sustainable development and an advocate for debt forgiveness. They don't seem to know he has worked with many regimes, good and bad, and spent decades as a special advisor to the UN. He is committed to diplomacy before conflict and recognises that means negotiating with people you may not like.

Scott Horton's new book traces the history of this conflict back to 1990 and the promises made when Germany was reunified. It's a fascinating, well referenced read if a bit hefty. 😀

I’m ex forces from an ex forces family, nearly all of whom saw active conflict, I know how it works. What we don’t want is to be sending our highly trained & skilled military off to wars to fight on sides that have absolutely no chance of winning. There has to be a peace deal, an off ramp now, and if anyone thinks there aren’t UK forces sneakily there already there then I have a bridge to sell them.

Posters on MN declaiming it “the right thing” to involve our forces in this blood bath should be willing to send their own kids surely? Or is it just for the mainly very working class people who are the major components of our forces and who join because there is literally nothing else for them in their small, very often, underfunded, Northern/Midland/Welsh/Scottish towns?