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Original poster

To be alarmed at Starmers plans

256 replies

Rubytuesday77 · 22/01/2025 16:43

Anybody else worried about his ongoing plans for deeper involvement in Ukraine. In an interview yesterday he said he intends to send our troops out there. Surely this would mean we’d be at war with Russia! Anyone else very concerned.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
amigafan2003 · 22/01/2025 16:44

About time imho

Reallybadidea · 22/01/2025 16:45

Link please, because what I read was that he didn't rule it out, not that he said he would

apricitykomorebi · 22/01/2025 16:58

I have been following the conflict in Ukraine since 2014. It is not as straightforward as the papers and other MSM lead us to believe, i.e. it's not entirely unprovoked and it's not "all Russia's fault" as they tell us. It's much more nuanced than that, and I must say I have been quite concerned that there is not at the very minimum more people in the government that at least call for some caution! Everyone is constantly running around all guns blazing calling for more and more offensive weapons to be sent to Ukraine and more and more money to keep this war going. Unfortunately, this only means more deaths and more destruction for Ukraine and brings us closer to the brink of either WWIII or a nuclear war and frankly I am not that sure that anyone in the government fully comprehends the implications. It's been too long since WWII and it's as if everyone has forgotten what it means to live through such a horrific event!

zerogrey · 22/01/2025 16:59

Once just once

Could someone post with a link

MangoNo55 · 22/01/2025 17:03

I think it’s only a matter of time before Trump says he’s no longer supporting the Ukraine so they need to negotiate with Putin to bring this war to a close.
Trump doesn’t want to spend a dime outside the US.

Starmer may just be trying to make himself look good knowing that it’ll be over before he has to do anything more.

NetballHoop · 22/01/2025 17:07

apricitykomorebi · 22/01/2025 16:58

I have been following the conflict in Ukraine since 2014. It is not as straightforward as the papers and other MSM lead us to believe, i.e. it's not entirely unprovoked and it's not "all Russia's fault" as they tell us. It's much more nuanced than that, and I must say I have been quite concerned that there is not at the very minimum more people in the government that at least call for some caution! Everyone is constantly running around all guns blazing calling for more and more offensive weapons to be sent to Ukraine and more and more money to keep this war going. Unfortunately, this only means more deaths and more destruction for Ukraine and brings us closer to the brink of either WWIII or a nuclear war and frankly I am not that sure that anyone in the government fully comprehends the implications. It's been too long since WWII and it's as if everyone has forgotten what it means to live through such a horrific event!

In what way is it not entirely unprovoked and not all Russia's fault?

TheYearOfSmallThings · 22/01/2025 17:08

Link?

When you are starting a thread like this you need to show exactly what statement you are referring to. Otherwise it looks like you are just trying to stoke anxiety.

EasternStandard · 22/01/2025 17:08

I hope not, where did you see it op?

MushMonster · 22/01/2025 17:10

apricitykomorebi · 22/01/2025 16:58

I have been following the conflict in Ukraine since 2014. It is not as straightforward as the papers and other MSM lead us to believe, i.e. it's not entirely unprovoked and it's not "all Russia's fault" as they tell us. It's much more nuanced than that, and I must say I have been quite concerned that there is not at the very minimum more people in the government that at least call for some caution! Everyone is constantly running around all guns blazing calling for more and more offensive weapons to be sent to Ukraine and more and more money to keep this war going. Unfortunately, this only means more deaths and more destruction for Ukraine and brings us closer to the brink of either WWIII or a nuclear war and frankly I am not that sure that anyone in the government fully comprehends the implications. It's been too long since WWII and it's as if everyone has forgotten what it means to live through such a horrific event!

You see, I would agree with this and back a full withdrawal of arms supplies if Putin had not threaten UK and other European countries with his propaganda, fake news, hacking and so on.
If the conflict was only between Ukraine and Rusia. But I think Putin would be even more embolded and may actually take even a larger part of Ukraine, or the whole of it, and even attack us. We cannot stop the supply to Rusia, unfortunately.
If there is a way of getting to a ceasefire, peace treaty that involves Putin and any of his followers taken out of power, then yes. He is a done man, one way or another.
Someone, who will likely be Trump, will need to sit them at a table till an agreement is reached. Hopefully this year. Not sure any escalation just now is going to help anything, with that I agree.

Upstartled · 22/01/2025 17:11

God, really? ffs.

Adamante · 22/01/2025 17:12

As a previous poster said, I think it’s highly likely Trump will put an end to this war and SM will still clamour and moan about how dreadful he is. Starmer is just ridiculous, he is completely out of his depth, I’m tired of his rabbit in the headlights interviews that give no reassurance whatsoever.

RandomButtons · 22/01/2025 17:13

I reckon Trump will pull resources, so Starmer probably needs to show he’s behind Ukraine, not that it will do enough without America unless the whole EU pools resources.

Amaranthasweetandfair · 22/01/2025 17:15

Well good for him, sometimes you have to do the right thing.

Nothatgingerpirate · 22/01/2025 17:18

That support should have ended years ago.
And I say that as a Czech citizen.

wholettheturnipsburn · 22/01/2025 17:20

apricitykomorebi · 22/01/2025 16:58

I have been following the conflict in Ukraine since 2014. It is not as straightforward as the papers and other MSM lead us to believe, i.e. it's not entirely unprovoked and it's not "all Russia's fault" as they tell us. It's much more nuanced than that, and I must say I have been quite concerned that there is not at the very minimum more people in the government that at least call for some caution! Everyone is constantly running around all guns blazing calling for more and more offensive weapons to be sent to Ukraine and more and more money to keep this war going. Unfortunately, this only means more deaths and more destruction for Ukraine and brings us closer to the brink of either WWIII or a nuclear war and frankly I am not that sure that anyone in the government fully comprehends the implications. It's been too long since WWII and it's as if everyone has forgotten what it means to live through such a horrific event!

In what way is it not Russia's fault and in what way was it provoked?

Adamante · 22/01/2025 17:20

Amaranthasweetandfair · 22/01/2025 17:15

Well good for him, sometimes you have to do the right thing.

Will you be going to fight? Have you children of an age to go and fight? That’s “the right thing” isn’t it?

BlueRobins · 22/01/2025 17:22

i presume our spooks know whats what, and with all due respect to mumsnetters, i presume they know more than the public that follows the newspapers etc

apricitykomorebi · 22/01/2025 17:22

@NetballHoop it's a very long story, which in fact goes back beyond 2014. It would be too long to describe here but if you are interested, this is a good summary by Professor Jeffrey Sachs, who was an advisor to Gorbachev and later Yeltsin as well as the US government and so is very well familiar with the US relations with the former USSR and Russia and the history of this conflict. There are many other professors which spoke on this topic that the MSM chooses not to invite to give interviews on TV or in the papers. Of course, we can choose to blindly trust the MSM but like I said I have read extensively on this topic since 2014 and I find it hard to take the view of the MSM as it is given to us without any judgment.

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YoureNotGoingOutLikeThat · 22/01/2025 17:26

MangoNo55 · 22/01/2025 17:12

Oh hurrah. We're all saved!

CurlewKate · 22/01/2025 17:26

Link, please?

halfpastten · 22/01/2025 17:27

1.7 million young men have been slaughtered in Ukraine. 1.7 million. Everyone has pushed for a ceasefire in Gaza for casualties that are a tiny fraction of that. Why are the lives of all those young men in the Ukraine conflict so much less important? If Starmer is suggesting adding our troops to the carnage.... I am beyond words. On this Trump is right. Stop the carnage, make a deal.

BabyCatMama · 22/01/2025 17:29

Putin talked about it. He said we have to send military personnel to operate the missiles we're using now and that legally according to Russia NATO are now in direct war with Russia

EasternStandard · 22/01/2025 17:29

halfpastten · 22/01/2025 17:27

1.7 million young men have been slaughtered in Ukraine. 1.7 million. Everyone has pushed for a ceasefire in Gaza for casualties that are a tiny fraction of that. Why are the lives of all those young men in the Ukraine conflict so much less important? If Starmer is suggesting adding our troops to the carnage.... I am beyond words. On this Trump is right. Stop the carnage, make a deal.

He would be absolutely mad to go against Trump and / or to send troops

NetballHoop · 22/01/2025 17:30

apricitykomorebi · 22/01/2025 17:22

@NetballHoop it's a very long story, which in fact goes back beyond 2014. It would be too long to describe here but if you are interested, this is a good summary by Professor Jeffrey Sachs, who was an advisor to Gorbachev and later Yeltsin as well as the US government and so is very well familiar with the US relations with the former USSR and Russia and the history of this conflict. There are many other professors which spoke on this topic that the MSM chooses not to invite to give interviews on TV or in the papers. Of course, we can choose to blindly trust the MSM but like I said I have read extensively on this topic since 2014 and I find it hard to take the view of the MSM as it is given to us without any judgment.

Oh, if it's Jeffrey Sachs then it can be ignored as the ramblings of a consipracy theorist.

Russia invaded another country. The blame lies entirely with them.