David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

Sadly, I have actually seen this happen--which is not to devalue it happening here, but it really shows how some people just refuse to accept the experiences of others and think that because they have never seen something that it cannot be true.

There's also often "Nazis are the only real antisemitism" and "well, you're all wealthy and successful so what do you expect really, it's not racism then".

Simon Weisenthal was a very inspirational and impressive person. I've often thought he didn't really get the recognition he deserved. Obviously he did get recognition but I thought he deserved more.

There are constant insidious digs against Jewish people for being exploitative capitalist bankers and much scorn is heaped on Jews for their international ties, as traders etc. This kind of continuous antisemitic smear is parroted by loads of people without much criticism and pretty much mirrors the same sort of propaganda seen during the rise of the NSDAP. The level of historic ignorance is mind blowing! For centuries, Jewish people in most of Europe were not allowed to practice any crafts and prevented from joining guilds, ditto for being farmers or engage in most other professions. In fact, the only two main options to sustain a living were to engage in some form of finance, as Christians were not allowed to lend money or as traders relying on a global network. Kings and other powerful people borrowed from the Jews but when it came to repaying, time and time again, those in power would invent some horror story of Jews poisoning wells or alleged other perfidious acts that then tended to result in pogroms. Jewish bankers, including the favourite baddies, the Rothchilds were expected to bankroll rulers and knew that this could also be their noose. They are vilified for funding both sides during the Napoleonic war but at the same time, the Christian church endorsed and profited from warring European enemies for millennia.

The amount of times I tried in vain to have civil discussions with people who use the apparent proclivity of Jewish people in the finance system, the international gem dealers and other international traders as a Gotcha moment by explaining its obvious roots and there is no ‘conspiracy’ but cause and effect, is utterly frustrating! Jewish people continued to need an international network that may very well go beyond geographic and political borders as a lifeline. This does not mean there is some nefarious global agenda but it has often constituted the only way to protect and save its people. Zionism did not just come about in isolation but as a direct response to 19th century ‘intellectualised’ blatant antisemitism by for example the likes of Count Gobineau or Wagner’s son-in-law Houston Stewart Chamberlain from whom Hitler ‘borrowed’ much of for his dilettantish book.

Another emerging job option in European history for Jewish people was medicine. While Christian doctors were only a few steps above being butchers during medieval times, Jews were able to travel to the middle east, to study at incredibly advanced Middle Eastern universities who at the time were familiar with the Graeco-Roman sciences. This made them far better doctors than their Christian counterparts but also another target for persecution as the trope of the greedy rich Jewish doctor. Hence there is another historic reason, as to why for example there may be a tradition for Jewish people to opt for medical careers as part of a very long heritage. Then you have the comments about Jews in show business and their ‘stronghold’ in Hollywood. But again, there are some quite obvious reasons behind this. When Hitler came to power, there was a mass exodus in Europe but especially among the German film industry which was very advanced in the Thirties and in turn greatly advanced Hollywood movie production. Europe hemorrhaged some of its most skilled people in that industry. So yes, there are many fields that may seem to be ‘full of Jews’ but there are historic and cultural reasons that are not born out of some nefarious global scheme but part of an ongoing cycle of seeking shelter from persecution. It is shocking to see how many people ignore obvious socio-economic reasons to regurgitate anti-semitic slurs!

Do you mean Simon Wiesenthal?

I saw this story doing the rounds on Twitter a few years ago about an orthodox jewish man simply known as "Andrew" who often protests alone in support of uyghur muslims. Found it incredibly moving.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uighur-muslims-china-concentration-camps-london-protest-embassy-a9277921.html

"Andrew pitches up at the Chinese Embassy office in leafy Hampstead every single Tuesday and Wednesday. Sometimes he has company, but often he is alone. He’s been coming without fail for almost a year".

No obviously not, whatever made you think that?

Actually I had spelt it correctly but the post before mine spelt it that way so I thought I must have got it wrong.

If you want to be the spelling police you really need to check more posts.

I made a typo in his surname, as did @ancientgran . One transposed letter. I however know full well who he was, what he survived and what he went on to do, as I'm sure she does. Your problem is?

Thank you. Honestly it is really common on here that two or three people can say something but I'm the one who gets the finger pointed at. I did change my user name, didn't happen when I didn't indicate my age.

Add age discrimination to the list.

Anti semitism exists, it’s grim and horrible as all forms of prejudice are.

This Jewish writer explains her concerns with Baddiel’s premise. I know not everyone will agree with her critique and will note it’s from a left wing website, but I am sharing it if of interest to any one. novaramedia.com/2022/11/23/insisting-jews-dont-count-helps-nobody/

@Alstroemerias Sorry, but Rivkah Brown is not someone I can take seriously at all. A lot of the Jewish community have been quite upset with many of her Novara-funded takes over the last few years, though I realise you may mean well over sharing it. But her boss has A LOT to say and stories to twist about Jews. Nevertheless, she's a Corbyn fan-girl - that's the litmus test for these people I'm afraid - so she's the right kind of Jew for them and very useful to boot.

She claims Baddiel's premise "serves only to breed paranoia among Jewish people and resentment among everyone else". What has really caused paranoia among Jewish people is....antisemitism! What has really caused paranoia among Jewish people is...gaslighters telling them they're imaging it. Or racists (let's call a spade a spade) telling them they're lying. And you'll have seen from the many comments on this thread that the central premise of Baddiel's message has actually been met with relief by many Jews, who have found it impossible to be heard from being shouted down as 'weaponisers of antisemitism', and from being too scared to speak up through fear. Imagine the outrage from the far-left if anyone Jewish accused another minority of 'weaponising racism' directed towards them. But we're fair game apparently! Every time I see the simple word 'weaponise' online now my stomach goes into knots of anxiety, so over-used it's been by the far-left.

She goes on to describe some of the hideous racism constantly directed towards him on Twitter as simply "pestering"! It's not "pestering", it's a bin fire of racism. I am absolutely done with antisemitism-enablers like her (yes, Jews can be antisemitism-enablers - look up Tony Greenstein for example who writes for the appallingly antisemitic electronicintifada along with notorious antisemites David Miller and Asa Winstanley).

As someone on Twitter wrote in response to her article "Some of those she supports are so far left they disappear up the rear end of the far right".

I'm done. As it would seem other Jews on this thread are too.

I genuinely wanted to check who you were referring to. Names that incorporate Weiss are quite often part of Jewish family names; I have no problem other than wondering if there was someone else I should know more about. But searches did not bring up any results but there are many forgotten heroes. My first impulsive instinct was to tell you to fuck off with your defensive and unnecessary rude attitude, however, in an already emotional and very upsetting thread as it is, I then realised that my genuine question could be misconstrued. I am glad I waited a little before responding to see that.

Simon Wiesenthal helped my grandfather to prosecute a guard he recognised a number of years after WWII.

Simon Wiesenthal helped my grandfather to prosecute a guard he recognised a number of years after WWII.
@Grumpusaurus That's amazing :)

Simon Wiesenthal and his organisation provided quite a lifeline to victims as the Allies lost interest in prosecuting war criminals so quickly, leaving so many without justice. Guess with the Soviet Union as the new enemy, especially the US did not want to imprison or execute too many leading officers, as they wanted Germany as a new buffer zone. In fact, allowing so many high profile war criminals to escape so blatantly with the help of the US itself, the Vatican and the Red Cross, is a very big sign that antisemitism continued after some show trials. The Wiesenthal organisation also helped friends of my family to recoup their financial losses after the war. They were not rich at all, a lower middle class family who had their house expropriated and sold for a song to a German family with full party membership. That family then complained bitterly that they had to pay these wretched Jews what wasn’t even the real market value back as the rightful original owners.

I knew many Nazi war criminals were allowed to escape, but I did not know the REd Cross were implicated.

The Vatican shouldn’t have helped them ( to South America?). How can it have justified it, I wonder?

The Red Cross enabled even really high profile war criminals to escape, such as Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele and Klaus Barbie! They let at least 8,000 Waffen SS members flee justice. They claim it was incompetence but they issued at least 120,000 documents, mostly in Rome or Genoa that are thought to be not kosher. About 90% of ex-Nazis fled via Italy, mostly to Spain, and North and South America, especially Argentina. Some claim it was more down to the Vatican providing the original paperwork but many researchers do not buy that it was down to the Vatican alone.

Baddiel is monetizing anti-Semitism.

Is there a certain demographic targeting Jews specifically? It sounds completely over the top for there to be security at Jewish schools, unless there's a part of this discussion that isn't part of the mainstream.

Jason Lee has been vocal for many years about the impact of Baddiel's blackface and racist sketches. They obviously deeply affected him.

Baddiel having spent the 25 years since then with a successful career, which hasn't been hindered at all by his previous racism and subsequent lack of apology, suggests that actually, no, it's not true at all that "Jews don't count".

Really? Jewish institutions have been attacked regularly in multiple countries. It comes from multiple sectors.

I’m not a football fan but I believe this is called a ‘self-own’.

Baddiel’s thesis - which resonates with so many Jews, including ones on this thread - is that people who consider themselves anti-racist and on the ‘right side of history’ have a blind spot when it comes to Jews. I can’t imagine anyone saying that a Black or gay person were “monetising” their experience of prejudice by writing about it. But Jews and money - amirite?!

Also if you believe that Jewish communities across the world have invested in security at all schools and synagogues without there being a real need that has been thoroughly investigated and monitored, why else would they do it? For show? For performative victimhood? I’ll ask the security guards at my son’s school when I drop him off this morning, shall I? To think you’d know better is top-level hubris, or what we call ‘chutzpah’.

I really hope that you haven’t read properly through this thread because if you have, and those are your takeaways: oy vey!

Baddiel is monetizing anti-Semitism.

Wow, someone actually said it.

Is there a certain demographic targeting Jews specifically?

Yes, that demographic would be "racists" you utter clown. Old, young, left, right, British, non-British.

unless there's a part of this discussion that isn't part of the mainstream

Didn't realise a vulnerable group needed permission from the "mainstream" to warrant protection.

@Snoozer11

there are no words to describe your ignorance and bigotry, i for one am extremely grateful for David baddiel for making his programme. For most of us Jews his words resonate exactly with how we feel. All you are doing is proving it’s right for us to feel it

have a little look at the CST website. Perhaps it may educate you as to why we have security at all our schools, synagogues and events.

cst.org.uk

I’m not Jewish but antisemitism is something close to my heart for a number of reasons. Seeing how the educated left rallied around Jeremy Corbyn, how Jewishness is conflated with Israeli governmental policy etc and used to justify overt antisemitism is depressing and frustrating.

Some of the comments on this thread are utterly disgraceful and really highlight the problem DB was making. There is absolutely no way these comments would be being made in relation to other minority groups.

@Snoozer11 So you, a racist, think it's OK to come onto a public forum and spew you're bigotry yet also call out racism. Whereas Baddiel, who did a racist sketch 25 years ago is not allowed to call out racism (in your rulebook). As PP said, big self-own in both your posts.

He's repeatedly apologised for his racism. Are you going to apologise for yours? Of course you're not - because you, a non-Jew seem to think it's up to you to decide ("it's not true at all that "Jews don't count") whether or not the antisemitism he describes exists and whether or not Jews deserve physical security and protection (despite the overwhelming evidence that they do).

@Grumpusaurus I did indeed misconstrue your question and see now that it was honest. I'm afraid that some of this thread has my hackles very far up and I should also have thought/asked before responding as I did. Please accept my sincere apology and yes, I was referring to the great Simon Wiesenthal.