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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Part 2: Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result (

619 replies

pombear · 19/03/2022 20:38

Hope you don't mind whytcvv just posting here as your thread reached the limit for posts

Posting your original OP here:- Ignore my previous thread-start as it didn't include important title"

whytcvv
When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Link to previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4508526-female-swimmers-beaten-by-transgender-athlete-stage-podium-protest-at-unfair-result

OP posts:
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23
DrSbaitso · 21/03/2022 07:24

@Dinosauria

Though it looks like the woman who came "second" wasn't...?

And this makes me so sad. I don't want to live in a world where we are questioning if someone 'looks' female. I don't look female but I am a woman, if someone is in a woman's race it should be a given they are a woman. Admitting Penis people does more harm than just taking away chances to win.

To clarify, I meant it looked as if the woman standing on the second place podium wasn't clapping.
Helleofabore · 21/03/2022 07:32

I think the issue could be decided scientifically. You measure the power to weight ratio or relevant statistic for elite women. Anyone more than 5% better than the average of the best women can't compete with them.

Ok. Now what do we do about heart and lung size? Musculature - Ie. Twitch muscles etc? Grip strength if needed? Hand and feet size? Arm span? And the many other completely unchangable physical advantages that males have.

The point is that lowering Testosterone is a farce! There are so many physical advantages that males have not considered.

How about menstruation? How do you account for dealing with the fact no male has to deal with menstrual effects which also includes ligament changes that means an athlete is prone to greater injury at certain times of their cycle.

There was never any reason to ever think a group of males could compete with females. It was never fair. And it is a validation exercise not an exercise in finding the best female athlete at that moment and place and group.

DrSbaitso · 21/03/2022 07:36

When will people stop pretending that they don't know the difference between a man and a woman, and that a woman is just a kind of mis-made man, and if we just find the right bullshit oversimplified non-equation, we can and should kowtow to the demands of these male people to externally validate them?

You know this is bullshit so why are you pretending reality doesn't exist, to women's detriment, to appease this crap? Do you think oppressing women is somehow progressive?

Dinosauria · 21/03/2022 07:48

To clarify, I meant it looked as if the woman standing on the second place podium wasn't clapping.

Apologies, I mis-understood your post, probably because it touches a nerve. The fact that you don't have to announce you are trans (and this will happen more often as children who are trans will not been known as they won't swap in the same way Lia did) means that people will look at women and think are they a bloke.

RachelGreeneGreep · 21/03/2022 08:06

Does anyone think that this particular farce will lead to some kind of turning point? That more people are now taking notice and saying this is absolutely crazy.

whytcvv · 21/03/2022 08:07

@RachelGreeneGreep

Does anyone think that this particular farce will lead to some kind of turning point? That more people are now taking notice and saying this is absolutely crazy.
At this point no.
roughmeasures · 21/03/2022 08:15

@Campervan69

It's ridiculous and really losing all sympathy for transgender people when you see things like this. Blatant cheating. Awful. The poor girls who have to change with him as well.
So you lose all sympathy for ALL trans people because of one person?!

Do you apply that rule to others too? One white murderer = you dislike all white people?

itsgettingweird · 21/03/2022 08:21

I find it interesting (I'd never really given it a thought before now) - that when you go onto the asa website to check your time and ranking it asks for gender and not sex.

I've always just put in male (as ds is) - but he's male sex. He can't really be male gender as it's just a social contract. (Although he doesn't self Id as a woman under this social construct)

BornBlonde · 21/03/2022 08:29

I keep imaging the moments these mid-performing male athletes have the lightbulb moment that if they just they are women they will be gold/silver in their sports.

Or does it come from their trainer? Coach? Parent?

BornBlonde · 21/03/2022 08:30

Sorry typo

I keep imaging the moments these mid-performing male athletes have the lightbulb moment that if they just say they are women they will be gold/silver in their sports.

Or does it come from their trainer? Coach? Parent?

nolongersurprised · 21/03/2022 08:39

So you lose all sympathy for ALL trans people because of one person?!

For me, it emphasises that transwomen and not women. They are men and as such don’t belong in women’s sport and in women’s changing rooms.

Most transwomen now are very TWAW. However, once someone is confronted with how people can’t change sex, it’s impossible to ever go back to chanting TWAW, even if you once pretended to believe it, to be kind.

Penners99 · 21/03/2022 08:41

probably going to get flamed for this, but here goes.

There should be 3 competition tracks in all sports. XX, XY and In your dreams.

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 21/03/2022 08:45
Supersee · 21/03/2022 09:18

Getting discussed on Jeremy Vine at 10am.

Owen Jones is on the panel. Not sure I want to get myself into a stage of inevitable rage so early in the morning.

DottyHarmer · 21/03/2022 09:19

Is that true, that the categories in US Swimming are Men and Open ? No Women, then ? Shock

spacehardware · 21/03/2022 09:22

Oh Owen Jones is going to do his own cause so much damage. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and all that

Dinosauria · 21/03/2022 09:28

@Supersee

Getting discussed on Jeremy Vine at 10am.

Owen Jones is on the panel. Not sure I want to get myself into a stage of inevitable rage so early in the morning.

Where please?
Nnique · 21/03/2022 09:34

Why do men even get to speak on this subject?? It’s got fuck all to do with them!

TigerMTV · 21/03/2022 09:35

Wow this thread moves quickly!

Re Lia Thomas - don’t the US swimming association scrutinise races where she’s clearly not trying or moving her legs when she’s supposed to be swimming … how can they justify letting this slide? It’s farcical.

@DottyHarmer
I’d like to know that too…

DrSbaitso · 21/03/2022 09:39

@DottyHarmer

Is that true, that the categories in US Swimming are Men and Open ? No Women, then ? Shock
If you can become a woman by saying you are and fiddling with your hormones a bit, then effectively, yes.

Isn't Owen Jones gay? Surely he should know how a man differs from a woman?

Supersee · 21/03/2022 09:40

@Dinosauria Channel 5.

georgarina · 21/03/2022 09:50

I keep imaging the moments these mid-performing male athletes have the lightbulb moment that if they just they are women they will be gold/silver in their sports.

And not just that, but if anyone questions them, THEY will be disqualified. It's madness.

MsTSwift · 21/03/2022 09:55

Feel like I living in an Alice in wonderland world where supposedly intelligent adults earnestly believe insane things and if you speak up you are the one vilified?! It’s mental sorry.

Dinosauria · 21/03/2022 10:00

[quote Supersee]@Dinosauria Channel 5. [/quote]
Thanks, was thinking Radio 2 but Ken still on a 10.

Am watching now

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 21/03/2022 10:04

Campervan69
It's ridiculous and really losing all sympathy for transgender people when you see things like this. Blatant cheating. Awful. The poor girls who have to change with him as well.
So you lose all sympathy for ALL trans people because of one person?!

Do you apply that rule to others too? One white murderer = you dislike all white people?

////

For me there is critical mass and timing at play. The .% of trans people in any population is small however the constant and insidious creep in to womens places and stripping away hard earned rights means a handful of people are doing a lot of damage.

I have yet to see a single TW (and I'm focusing here because let's be honest TM on the whole just get on with it and don't pose any threat to biological men. At all) do a single action to lift biological women or help the cause of feminism unless it's clearly self serving. We rarely see TW calling out the damage their demands are causing.

So as long as a small group of people continue to shit over women and girls just so they can live their authentic lives, I will continue to scrutinise their motives.