Part 6 A thread for the continued enjoyment of Boris' downfall, enjoyment being important

[jgw1]

What the title says.

This will be the one where he resigns, so if please keep the whatabout to a minimum.

The replies on the James Blunt tweet are excellent. "will there be biscuits?"

Talking of the 1930s. 'I was just following orders' was not an accepted excuse in Nuremberg.

@Tealightsandd

Talking of the 1930s. 'I was just following orders' was not an accepted excuse in Nuremberg.

Quite rightly so too.

Like I say. I'm not happy with many of Boris's decisions but he is not responsible for the actions and choices of others.

Next time someone tells you to jump of a cliff, if you do as they say it will be your choice to do so

Do you believe that people can be manipulated to behave in certain ways and to have their views endorsed, so as to think it doesn't matter what they do as people will think it's ok?

How did Hitler end up convincing people that the Jews should be treated as they were?

I'll leave you to it. I don't want to derail but it was an important point that needed to be made.

Well said cakeorwine

Talking of the 1930s. 'I was just following orders' was not an accepted excuse in Nuremberg

How do you think hate speech and incitement works?

Radicalisation of people. People consistently hearing negative things about a group. Groups being the target of daily negative propaganda, large headlines in the paper about them, echo chambers filled with lies about them.

And then hate crime, attacks, murders etc go up against such a group.

These things don't happen in isolation.

How did Hitler end up convincing people that the Jews should be treated as they were?

It's actually really very offensive to compare a childish insult from either Angela Rayner or Boris Johnson to the Holocaust.

But to answer your question, he didn't. (And also, like I said quite rightly 'I was just following orders' was not an accepted defence for the Nuremberg trials).

Antisemitic racism against Jewish people has a long and disgraceful history. Hitler, in fact, tapped into and used it to further his quest for power.

And also separately, people who did want to speak out were too scared. Justifiably - because dissent was silenced and mob rule was the thing.

Mob attacks against Sir Keir Starmer are not ok. Nor are verbal mob attacks on Angela Rayner or Boris Johnson.

Boris did not use hate speech or incitement against Sir Keir. He made a childish accusation. With Angela Rayner? 'Scum' is pretty immature but again in the context it was more childish than hate speech.

It's actually really very offensive to compare a childish insult from either Angela Rayner or Boris Johnson to the Holocaust

You said that people are responsible for their own actions.

You brought up the 1930s and Nuremburg.

So please don't try saying I was comparing the two things.

It's a discussion about how people can be manipulated into behaving and the effect of people / words / actions on other people.

Something you haven't answered but have tried to deflect with your use of the word 'offensive'.

@Tealightsandd

Boris did not use hate speech or incitement against Sir Keir. He made a childish accusation. With Angela Rayner? 'Scum' is pretty immature but again in the context it was more childish than hate speech.

What effect do you think bringing up Saville in the case of Starmer would have on some people.

No, it's not hate speech. But it's forming an impression in some people's minds that Starmer stopped the prosecution of Saville.

That's what some people hear. What effect do you think that would have on them?

By the argument of hate speech, than people need to reign back on some of the words used against Boris.

It used to be dismissed as childish insults - but if it's to be considered hate speech than the same principle applies for all. Including Boris Johnson and Angela Rayner.

So from now on, we need to stick to nothing stronger than 'not very nice man/woman'. To describe any public (or private) figure.

Have I posted this before? QAnon and the plot to break reality.
About the USA but applicable here too perhaps. Genuinely chilling listening, very well put together:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001324r

You brought up the 1930s and Nuremburg.

No. A pp brought it up (the 1930s and allusions to Nazism). I replied to them.

I have no desire to spend the rest of my evening wasting my time arguing here.

I've made my point.

I do hope that Boris has good security. Because, like you say, inciting hate can have dangerous consequences.

Johnson repeated a far right smear, it was not a childish insult and he knew exactly what he did.

@Tealightsandd

You brought up the 1930s and Nuremburg.

No. A pp brought it up (the 1930s and allusions to Nazism). I replied to them.

And you'll appreciate that I wasn't comparing 'a childish accusation' (which it really wasn't) to the Holocaust.

I was discussing how people can be manipulated by others - and radicalisation is something we are all aware of.

It's even easier nowadays with social media. Just stick to your echo chamber, hear what you want to hear, surround yourself with like minded people so you convince yourself that many people think like you, have your views reenforced by the media, even by prominent politicians, and it makes it just so much easier for you to do what you want to do.

Because, like you say, inciting hate can have dangerous consequences

Make your mind up.

I thought people were responsible for their own actions.

Will Harri resign by tomorrow evening?

@DuncinToffee

Johnson repeated a far right smear, it was not a childish insult and he knew exactly what he did.

The only time I'd ever heard that smear before was from Corbyn supporting momentum.

The way things are going - mob rule and silencing dissent, I'd say both Starmer and Johnson need protection.

I only hope for a less militant intolerant partisan society sometime in the future.

@Tealightsandd

It starts with relatively small remarks, Raynor said something wrong but it was a general remark, BJ made his to a specific person & as said, it was designed to incite, to question, to associate KS with being soft on child abuse.

Boris Johnson is the UK's equivalent of a modern dictator, elected democratically but then sets out to remove democratic structures, he is of course constrained far more then he might have been in yesteryear due to SM but make no mistake, should he lose the next GE (unlikely) he will cling to power as long as possible... as he said recently "an army of tanks will be needed to remove me from Downing St"

Bad people on both sides Tealights?

@Tealightsandd TBH You constantly going on about Blair, is hardly tolerant & less militant.

I'm surprised you haven't linked him to the attack on KS.

The only time I'd ever heard that smear before was from Corbyn supporting momentum

It's supposed to be a Far Right trope as well.

And he was clearly advised not to say it.

but make no mistake, should he lose the next GE (unlikely) he will cling to power as long as possible..

What