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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Prince Andrew

999 replies

Tevion28 · 01/01/2022 23:58

Do you think guilty or innocent

OP posts:
awesomekilick · 02/01/2022 08:25

Bloody hell. Innocent until proved guilty is a cornerstone of British justice. Take that away - take a cornerstone away - and the whole building falls down.

Fairylights25 · 02/01/2022 08:28

It is for a court to decide Hmm

Alondra · 02/01/2022 08:29

There is a saying in Spain saying something like "Julius Caeser not only has to be honest but appear honest".

Monarchies survive thanks to public opinion. They day the public perceive them as "one them" instead of an institution with value to us all, it's the day the end in sight.

I'm a Spaniard with a royal family who, with the exception of Felipe and Letizia, has been entitled, corrupt and thought they could do whatever they wanted with the approval of the majority of the press who hid serious issues. Until one day they couldn't hide it anymore and the whole thing exploded.

I think Charles needs to seriously put Andrew to pasture if he doesn't want the institution dragged down more than it is already by taking his titles, take him out of the civil list and any other entitlement he receives from public moneys.

If not, too many people are going to think the royal family is protecting him. True or not, it's how it will appear to the public when the son of the monarch is dragged down in a court case in the US for paedophilia.

Roussette · 02/01/2022 08:29

And there’s no way the Queen didn’t know either. She’s well known for being informed about everything. She’ll have known all about Epstein

Absolutely.

12 years ago, it is on record 'the Queen expresses concern' about Andrew's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, and also his role as Trade Envoy.

'Expressing concern' is pathetic. Why wasn't he reigned in decades ago.

Well... it's all come back to bite the RF on the arse hasn't it

Dozer · 02/01/2022 08:29

Guilty sex offenders are only very rarely prosecuted and convicted, awesomekilick.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 02/01/2022 08:30

Guilty morally? Definitely.

Guilty beyond reasonable doubt of knowingly committing an act that is a crime in this country? Not sure.

TeloMere · 02/01/2022 08:30

I think he's innocent in that he's not very bright and probably thinks any girl would be thrilled to have sex with him.
I don't think he knew that there was sex trafficking going on.

Unfortunately being guilty of arrogance and poor judgement isn't a criminal offence

Roussette · 02/01/2022 08:31

Bloody hell. Innocent until proved guilty is a cornerstone of British justice. Take that away - take a cornerstone away - and the whole building falls down

Innocent until proven guilty is used endlessly on here. We are not magistrates or judges, we will not affect the case. We are allowed to discuss it and have opinions on it. Saying that endlessly on these threads is just a way to shut down discussion AFAIC

Dozer · 02/01/2022 08:31

Wouldn’t be surprised if there were some sordid events (eg use of sex workers, sex offences) - unreported by the media - from his time (paid from public money) working as a trade envoy.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 02/01/2022 08:32

@awesomekilick

Bloody hell. Innocent until proved guilty is a cornerstone of British justice. Take that away - take a cornerstone away - and the whole building falls down.
Do you think Jimmy Savile is innocent, then?

The justice system must treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty. There is nothing to stop private individuals having a view on someone's guilt, ahead of any trial.

LookslovelyinSpringtime · 02/01/2022 08:35

Guilty. He’s an arrogant entitled man who thinks he can do exactly as he pleases because of Mummy.

Roussette · 02/01/2022 08:36

@Alondra your post is my favourite on this thread.

I know a little about the ex king and the family and how King Felipe is trying to bring back the spanish RF from the abyss.

And I love that quote. Yes, it is all about optics. The optics on PA have been absolutely appalling for decades. Backhanders, dodgy deals, cosying up to despots and arm dealers and rulers with dreadful human rights records and more.
Well... we are going through our Juan Carlos and Christina moment here in the UK.

Vapeyvapevape · 02/01/2022 08:38

PA went to great pains to say that he wasn’t close friends with Epstein but that his friendship was actually with GM , I wonder how he’d explain it now that she’s been found guilty?

Backtomyoldname · 02/01/2022 08:39

His dick’s got him into more trouble than his brain, and legal team, can sort out.

Did he do it - I think so.

Is he guilty of a crime - technically probably not as reported so far. She was over 16 and it occurred in the UK.

Guilty of being a sleaze ball, taking advantage of vulnerable others. Definitely yes.

Was he involved or benefitting from, sex trafficking, coercive sex, pimping. Probably yes.

Will he be found guilty - not sure on this one. Should be.

Will he loose his Naval Uniform/dressing up clothes and rank - he should do.

Are there others involved who are keeping quiet. Yes.

Makingnumber2 · 02/01/2022 08:39

Guilty

NearlyAHoarder · 02/01/2022 08:41

She was 17 but he was guilty of entitlement
Guilty of believing the honour was all hers
Guilty of not caring about poor girls
Guilty of lying
Guilty of feeling like the victim!!!
Guilty of only caring about him
Guilty of spending the british tax payers' money on lawyers to defend him.

He's disgusting but he will not spend a day in jail.

Roussette · 02/01/2022 08:42

She was over 16 and it occurred in the UK

It wasn't just in the UK. It was also NY (she was underage at the time) and on the island (virgin islands) so no, not just UK

MsTSwift · 02/01/2022 08:44

A really good friend of my dads when I was a teen lost his job for having sex with a 17 year old when he was in his 40s . Don’t think he was actually charged but there was police involvement- he had nice wife and kids same age as us we used to holiday together. There was no clue he seemed a nice man.

The man actually wrote to dad after it came out hoping this would not affect their friendship dad wrote back return of post friendship over he had dds 2 years younger than the girl involved and was disgusted by what the ex friend had done. That’s what a decent person does in that scenario.

Benjispruce5 · 02/01/2022 08:45

Guilty

NearlyAHoarder · 02/01/2022 08:45

@awesomekilick

Bloody hell. Innocent until proved guilty is a cornerstone of British justice. Take that away - take a cornerstone away - and the whole building falls down.
eh, yeh, and he has capitalised on that.

As another poster pointed out to you, we're not leading him to the gallows or even locking him up.

We're typing our opinions.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 02/01/2022 08:46

@Alondra

There is a saying in Spain saying something like "Julius Caeser not only has to be honest but appear honest".

Monarchies survive thanks to public opinion. They day the public perceive them as "one them" instead of an institution with value to us all, it's the day the end in sight.

I'm a Spaniard with a royal family who, with the exception of Felipe and Letizia, has been entitled, corrupt and thought they could do whatever they wanted with the approval of the majority of the press who hid serious issues. Until one day they couldn't hide it anymore and the whole thing exploded.

I think Charles needs to seriously put Andrew to pasture if he doesn't want the institution dragged down more than it is already by taking his titles, take him out of the civil list and any other entitlement he receives from public moneys.

If not, too many people are going to think the royal family is protecting him. True or not, it's how it will appear to the public when the son of the monarch is dragged down in a court case in the US for paedophilia.

In Latin, Uxorem Caesaris tam suspicione quam crimine carere oportet

Caesar's wife must be free from suspicion, as well as accusation.

User135644 · 02/01/2022 08:47

He always reminds me of Spitting Image in the 80s. His puppet was Randy Andy and fucked everything that moved.

Roussette · 02/01/2022 08:49

MsTSwift Yes absolutely. That is what a decent person does. PA's eldest daughter was only 5 years younger at the time. And let's not pretend he didn't see all those young girls at these properties he visited on a regular basis. JE had an enormous sexual appetite, there were hundreds of them at different times, but PA 'saw nothing'.

There's footage of him at the NY mansion, after a young girl goes in and out the door (to me, she looks about 14) and he is peering out.

Opheliaterradaclte · 02/01/2022 08:50

Grim. people think an old man having sex with a ‘willing’ 16 year old is ok? That alone is very dodgy moral grounds.

Either some desperate royal family supporters here or someone with no knowledge about teenage development and vulnerability. Also she looked like a child! Yuck yuck yuck.

TheKeatingFive · 02/01/2022 08:51

I doubt he knew the girl was trafficked.

He may not have called it that, but i'd be very confident he understood the terms by which she was there (ie paid).

What else would explain such a big gulf in age and social class? VG clearly wasn't a friend of the Maxwells in any normally understood sense.