Prince Andrew

[Tevion28]

Do you think guilty or innocent

@bubblesbubbles11 Andrew and Sarah are a couple and have been for a long time. They got officially divorced because Sarah's affairs became public knowledge. But in reality, amongst the aristocracy, multiple affairs seems to be common. Andrew doesn't seem to care as long as she is discrete. Just as Sarah does not seem to care that he has sex with multiple teenagers.
Basically they behave like the worst example of immorality you can imagine, but with private jets and palaces.

Andrew had a billionaire lifestyle and bought an £18m ski chalet. How? He receives less than £300k a year yet could do this.
Very murky
And of course he would sort his ex's debts, she knows about his skeletons in the cupboard. They only got divorced because of PP, toe sucking etc.
The live together and have done for a very long time

Whatever happens to PA this year, I'm pretty sure PC will have nothing to do with him once he's King and if PA's not stripped down to his scuzzy y-fronts by the Queen then he'll do it.

@Kennykenkencat if you know this level of detail, you must know that Virginia has said many times this is not about money. This is about justice. She turned to the civil courts after getting nowhere with the police.
Yes a different country, but it is what the parents at Hillsborough did as well. Again they were not motivated by greed and hopes of a big payout, but about a desire for justice. And just like Virginia, the press told lies to blacken the victim's reputation.
If the court finds in Virginia's favour, there is no way back for Andrew to any kind of public life. He will lose his military titles, there will be no more medals, and Charles will remove him from the line of succession. He wont end up in jail where he should, but he will feel some consequences.

Wow, that is very murky indeed.

At that point, his father hadn't died, his mother is still alive, the only person who could have left him millions was the queen mother and I don't think she would have left prince Andrew 18 million !!

RoyalFamilyFan

Ah I see.

To me that just makes PA appear even more thick than before.
He *knew" his ex wife Sarah Furgeson was appalling with money, heck he had even gone through a divorce with her, I bet my bottom dollar he would have continued to see /spend all the time in the world with his two daughters B and E even if he abandoned SF, and YET he still behaved in the way that SF's debts were his own obligation to clear up.

SF strikes me as the kind of person who would still have been trying to suck up to PA even if PA said "off you go and declare yourself bankrupt" (i.e he could have distanced himself from the disastrous financial situation she created but he did not).

He is such an idiot.

I don't know what sort of stone cold hearted misogynist could say that VG ''doesn't come out of this well either''.

I absolutely take my hat off to that woman. She was a nobody and she has shown that rich powerful royal men can (eventually) be a little bit cornered. I wouldn't exactly say that he has been made to pay but I hope that he has had many sleepless nights. That might in the end be the closest she can get to justice but right now, I hope she sleeps more soundly than he does.

"And of course he would sort his ex's debts, she knows about his skeletons in the cupboard"

I find the above totally bizarre.
In the longer scheme of things, the media had trashed SF so completely that if PA wanted to walk away, I really wonder what if anything SF could have come out with which PA's PA firm (!!) could not have "got rid of" fairly quickly. I think the media could have painted SF as completely crazy and discreditable.

But he didn't.

Stupid is as stupid does.

The problem is those who are not quite enough close to the throne are ruined by their excessive money and their excessive time on their hands (see Harry).

@NearlyAHoarder

I don't know what sort of stone cold hearted misogynist could say that VG ''doesn't come out of this well either''.

I absolutely take my hat off to that woman. She was a nobody and she has shown that rich powerful royal men can (eventually) be a little bit cornered. I wouldn't exactly say that he has been made to pay but I hope that he has had many sleepless nights. That might in the end be the closest she can get to justice but right now, I hope she sleeps more soundly than he does.

Absolutely. I think she has been amazing and so incredibly brave. None of us will ever know how difficult this was for her. In my opinion, Prince Andrew is not stupid. He knew exactly what was happening and did not care one iota. The people who say he was too stupid to realise are making excuses for his behaviour.

@NearlyAHoarder

Yes yes yes
You put it so much better than me

She has been insulted and degraded on this thread but I think she's brave and tenacious. And what she has done for victims is just great.

All those rich powerful men should take note.

I actually think he's guilty but doesn't realise it. I think he's slept with her and it hasn't once crossed his mind that she may have been coerced into doing it. I just think he's immersed himself into this lifestyle of flying around the world surrounded by young girls and not once questioned their experience or what was really going on. In essence I think he was a self absorbed fool who was easily manipulated because he has such a high opinion of himself.

However I think when the shit has hit the fan he's lied. Instead of saying 'yes I did sleep with her and now that I realise the truth of what's gone on, I'll do everything in my power to make amends to both her and Epstein's other victims' he's dug himself into a right hole. I don't feel sorry for him I think he's a vain idiot who hasn't spared a single thought for the women involved at all.

I do believe that while the press were banging on about MM and her Oprah interview, the real undoing of the monarchy could well be the queen's own son. I don't think the queen will turn on him and I certainly don't think he'll fall on his sword for the greater good of the monarchy. I think for them to get out of this one, it'll take the queen dying and the next monarch having the gumption to speak out about him. As in to say to the public this is not behaviour that we are prepared to condone.

@NearlyAHoarder

I don't know what sort of stone cold hearted misogynist could say that VG ''doesn't come out of this well either''.

I absolutely take my hat off to that woman. She was a nobody and she has shown that rich powerful royal men can (eventually) be a little bit cornered. I wouldn't exactly say that he has been made to pay but I hope that he has had many sleepless nights. That might in the end be the closest she can get to justice but right now, I hope she sleeps more soundly than he does.

Damn right. That woman has bigger balls than all those creepy old perverts put together. I don't want to piggyback on what she went through but it almost feels like she's speaking for every other woman who's been the victim of sexual violence too. Fucking good on her.

bubbles as can be seen from the VG/PA case there is far more she would've known and could've dished the dirt on

@Roussette

In NY at the time, in VGs legal case, one of the places she supposedly had sex with PA, that was illegal. The NY age laws are different to ours.

We need to keep repeating this.

ohfook I agree

Well I suppose the RF didn’t know what they were up to

Nonsense. You wouldn't get that close to a Royal without being fully vetted, let alone an invite to stay at the homes . Every tier of this family and it's administration knew exactly who Andrew was involved with - and the security services, foreign office and police. Even after Epstein was charged, Andrew still met up with him and Maxwell. You seriously don't believe they didn't know? Andrew was even warned off, but still the contact and Royal invites flowed. The FBI must have been pretty amazed at the stupidity of the lot of them.

@Aubree17

I think he had sex with Virginia.

At that point he was much younger, and she was above the age of consent in the UK so in this respect I don't think he did anything wrong.

I also believe she willingly had sex with him.

The trafficking question is much much more difficult. Were these girls held against their will? I suspect not.

Were they lured by the trappings of wealth and the luxury lifestyle Epstein could offer. Possibly.

Did Andrew know the full extent of Epstein's exploits? It should have been obvious he liked young woman but I doubt he knew the full extent.

Whatever the truth I doubt he will come out of this well.

They were literally trafficked by two convicted sex traffickers. The "trafficking question" isn't difficult at all, it has been conclusively proven beyond reasonable doubt.

How bizarre to have a personal opinion about the willingness of a teenage sex trafficking victim to have sex with a middle aged man You realise you don't actually know any of these people and you weren't there?

@DuncinToffee

I'm not joking when I say I have honestly posted this about 6times on this thread!

This thread is about to finish,could someone start a new one? Later on today in NY is crucial as far as the case, and I'm on a phone so it's fiddly!

@NearlyAHoarder

I don't know what sort of stone cold hearted misogynist could say that VG ''doesn't come out of this well either''.

I absolutely take my hat off to that woman. She was a nobody and she has shown that rich powerful royal men can (eventually) be a little bit cornered. I wouldn't exactly say that he has been made to pay but I hope that he has had many sleepless nights. That might in the end be the closest she can get to justice but right now, I hope she sleeps more soundly than he does.

I think Virginia has been amazingly brave. She is a woman from a poor background, who has been raped and abused by rich and powerful men. They have the money and influence to get the media and people calling her a slut, saying she is just after money, and even implying she herself was a pimp. The pressure is enormous. And yet she keeps going. And Andrew keeps losing his submissions to court to have the case delayed or dismissed on technicalities.

So many speak out about the girls in Rotherham. There is exactly the same here, except instead of kebab shops and flats, you have mansions and private jets. Oh and of course they are white, rich and in some cases famous.

I don’t think PA or the RF are stupid, I think they knew exactly what was going on but they thought that because of their status, they were untouchable.

@StoneofDestiny

Well I suppose the RF didn’t know what they were up to

Nonsense. You wouldn't get that close to a Royal without being fully vetted, let alone an invite to stay at the homes . Every tier of this family and it's administration knew exactly who Andrew was involved with - and the security services, foreign office and police. Even after Epstein was charged, Andrew still met up with him and Maxwell. You seriously don't believe they didn't know? Andrew was even warned off, but still the contact and Royal invites flowed. The FBI must have been pretty amazed at the stupidity of the lot of them.

Yes Andrew still saw him socially after he was convicted. His conviction was in the papers. Of course Andrew knew.

Fascinating that Andrew is only known for his murky friends, murky dealings and his financial excesses at taxpayers expense. Everything stinks - the money given by Epstein, the house sale where too much money was paid for it - by Arabs I think, his relationship with Trump etc, the constant pushing for his kids to be subsidised by us.
He is not known for his philanthropy, self-lessness,, frugality, temperance or kindness. He's obnoxious.

Not cut and dried. But I agree with the guilty and didn’t know it.
I think he thought the girls actually fancied him. He didn’t ask the questions he should have, was flattered and thought they wanted him as he felt he was “gods gift”
Simple man with a large ego.

@Roussette

Andrew had a billionaire lifestyle and bought an £18m ski chalet. How? He receives less than £300k a year yet could do this. Very murky And of course he would sort his ex's debts, she knows about his skeletons in the cupboard. They only got divorced because of PP, toe sucking etc. The live together and have done for a very long time

I didnt know he had bought an £18m ski chalet.

Bubbles in the article it explains pa hardly has any funds, only direct heirs do eg will am and Charles.
It says other royals are strongly bound into shadow world where they can't be seen to flog royal connections but at the same time have many royal duties but not cash to match.

Not excusing him but Fergies debts definitely impacted him and were a huge embarrassement.