Prince Andrew

[Tevion28]

Do you think guilty or innocent

@Classicblunder

Guilty of having sex with a 17 year old and probably not even thinking about whether she was trafficked or coerced

However, I think there are some questions about Virginia Guiffre - I think it's interesting that she didn't give evidence at GM's trial basically because they thought her evidence wouldn't help the case and I am a bit cynical about her reasons for selecting Andrew of all the many men she must have had sex with over this period

The prosecutors in the US probably didn't need her evidence. And not calling her as a witness may have been to avoid various interlocutory applications to get her evidence excluded.

So, purely tactical, not because her evidence would have been no good.

She may not have been particularly keen to give evidence, ie, give Andrew a sneak preview of what she'd say.

Trial by MN - this might just push PA over the edge.

@Motherdare

Has he actually been accused of anything?

Not criminally, no. Giuffre has brought a civil case against him.

But in theory the Americans could charge him if they obtained sufficient evidence of crimes under US law committed in the US and seek his extradition. Probably unlikely.

It wouldn't include having consensual sex with a 17-year old in the UK, as that's not a crime under UK law (or a tort, ie, a civil wrong, which is probably a bit of a legal headache for her.)

@Billandben444

Trial by MN - this might just push PA over the edge.

Don't sweat too much.

Of course he’s guilty. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone more obviously lying. It was like a comedy sketch!

He had sex with VG for sure. Whether he’s guilty of anything in the legal sense I have no idea. He was very very close friends with GM going back years (his own admission) so to claim he didn’t know the set up between her and JE is absurd. He knew their game, I can wholly believe people wouldn’t have referred to what they did as sex trafficking in those days though.

Guilty.

He's a dirty doggg 🎶 Guilty.

I suppose as it’s in a foreign court sub judice doesn’t apply. The telegraph and daily mail have it in for him, presumably to distract from other things. it’s a civil case, not a criminal case, he could settle.

I do wonder if no one has been able to explain to the queen what he did wrong….

The Behaviour Panel on you tube do a brilliant breakdown of his interview.

He's guilty and stupid.

He's had a life of luxury handed to him on a silver platter and pretty much all he had to do was not be an idiotically evil twat.

He's couldn't even manage that.

There's a few wrong things on this thread!

No, Sarah Ferguson did not arrange the carcrash interview for PA. His daughter Beatrice did. That's fact and on record.

There's also some subtle digs at Virginia Guiffre... 'she's only in it for the money' Horrible. She's had the money, she is doing this to highlight the sex trafficking. End of. She is doing it for all the other victims too. Brave woman. Hope she gets lots more money if possible.
She chose Andrew to bring the case against because he's top of the pile. It keeps this disgusting sex trafficking and coercion of young girls for rich old men, in the public eye. It's exactly what I would do if I didn't want this dropped.

Is PA guilty? Don't know where to start with that one. Guilty of what? Of knowing she was trafficked? Who knows. Guilty of sleeping with her, of course. But he is fighting this tooth and nail, it's costing us millions (just one of the team of US lawyers is costing $3,500 an hour). Hardly the actions of an innocent man.

Forget H&M, he has managed to trash the reputation of the RF round the world. Ironic, isn't it... the Queen' reign will end with this, favourite son dragging the RF into the mire, sad really.

The case goes ahead, tomorrow is crucial.

He’s guilty.

I think he’s so arrogant he thought those girls wanted to sleep with him. Wanted to be close to the Prince. He thinks everyone is a peasant and should bow at his feet.

He didn’t care where the girls came from, it was of no interest to him. That was obvious from the interview.

Not enough to make my mind up as when only get half the story as people desperate want him to be guilty .

What did amuse me in an ironic way is how... in the carcrash interview... he did his best to distance himself from Epstein, by repeatedly talking of Maxwell being his friend, and he just knew him because of her. That went well didn't it?!

Completely guilty.

In those times, when trafficking and age of consent were much lower profile someone with Andrew’s privilege wouldn’t have given it a second thought. Who knows whether today he may have thought twice about his actions and consequences but that doesn’t make it right.

He obviously thought that young, pretty blonde was into him and couldn’t have cared less even if she wasn’t. Or what the age of consent was in the US compared to the UK.

His entitlement and arrogance are unsurprising, and he definitely won’t be he only one.

Time will tell whether Trump and Clinton and the rest go down the same route. Thee are probably more young girls running scared out there that won’t give their story about US leaders.

@Enko

I think he had sex with her but I do not think it ever entered his mind she was not willingly engaging with him. He simply wouldn't have been able to entertain the idea he was not a catch for any woman. I also believe he did not recall who she was originally as I don't think she was important to him as someone to remember.

Legally that would make him not guilty. As I dont think she can prove he knew. I dont think he did as I dont think his entitled self could comprehend she was not wanting him.

Doesn't mean I don't believe she was trafficked just i dont think this case is a black and white situation

Agree.

I remember the rumour that he refused to go on the bus with the other Royals at William and Kate's wedding, instead insisting he went by individual car. If true, says a lot about him.

It is possible to go to Pizza Hut AND go to a nightclub afterwards .

I knew someone who was his senior in the navy. This was in the late 80’s when I knew this person. He had nothing good to say about PA.

I doubt he knew the girl was trafficked. Still, he's an arrogant creep.

His nickname from years ago: "Randy Andy".

Let's just bear in mind.... when Maxwell is sentenced, many victims are allowed to give Victim Impact statements, and it is said VG may well be one of those, even though she has a civil case going on, she has been permitted to do this.
I doubt she won't mention PA.

I agree with @Time40
Too thick to realise the girls were trafficked and coerced
Probably thought they were genuinely attracted to him
But he definitely slept with Virginia, if not more .

Of course he knew.

And there’s no way the Queen didn’t know either. She’s well known for being informed about everything. She’ll have known all about Epstein.

Also no way she’s not helping with all Andrew’s current legal manoeuvrings.