Prince Andrew

[Tevion28]

Do you think guilty or innocent

The history of the photo.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7404473/Andrews-frame-Friends-say-picture-dogged-prince-years-fake.html

I think he's guilty. I'm surprised VG and GM are still alive tbh.

The RF certainly appears to have a lot of skeletons in the closet.

@habibihabibi

Perhaps lock him up in the Tower of London.Could do wonders for tourism !

Yes! Put him on for Bushtucker trials with vomit fruit etc.

Guilty
I wish the names of those who violated those girls would come to light.

I mean why would he be anything but guilty?

@backtolifebacktoreality

As if you can remember you were in a Pizza Express on a particular night many years later!

He's an arrogant arse!

It's not entirely implausible if you kept a diary.

I'd guess that his mother and older brother probably could refer to a diary, whether kept by them personally or by a secretary, and confirm where they were on any given day. But you'd explain that you knew because it was recorded in your diary, or these days because Google Maps time line showed where you'd been.

I don't know the answer.

I don't fully believe either of them from the interviews I've seen.

[quote KimikosNightmare]The history of the photo.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7404473/Andrews-frame-Friends-say-picture-dogged-prince-years-fake.html[/quote]
I’ve read the link and watched the 2 videos associated with JE death. Interestingly the blood patterns don’t match hanging but strangulation. I knew this was suspected but hadn’t had it explained.

Back to the question. Do I think PA is guilty? I’d say guilty of believing young women and girls found him irresistible. Of trafficking offences? No. Or not intentionally. I imagine they had sex. He’s so arrogant that I imagine he didn’t think of the motivation of others. The hoi polloi are expendable, are they not?

@KloppsTeeth

Guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo. The man’s a pompous oaf. I think he will meet with a “riding accident” where he injures his head and won’t be able to stand trial.

You would think MI5 and 6 would have staged an intervention after doing background checks on the company he keeps, but clearly he is too well protected for that to have happened,

Those poor girls/women.

Also predict this thread will go poof.

Would there have been a basis under the Security Service Act 1989 for such an investigation by MI5 or MI6? I am struggling to see how the actions being discussed pose a threat to national security?

@Enko

I think he had sex with her but I do not think it ever entered his mind she was not willingly engaging with him. He simply wouldn't have been able to entertain the idea he was not a catch for any woman. I also believe he did not recall who she was originally as I don't think she was important to him as someone to remember.

Legally that would make him not guilty. As I dont think she can prove he knew. I dont think he did as I dont think his entitled self could comprehend she was not wanting him.

Doesn't mean I don't believe she was trafficked just i dont think this case is a black and white situation

Please can you stop coming on here being reasonably and rational and applying the law to the situation. The people want to see someone hang.

@backtolifebacktoreality

As if you can remember you were in a Pizza Express on a particular night many years later!

He's an arrogant arse!

All the Royals have social diaries - and I've no doubt that if he got called to appear before the courts, he'd have a perfectly-kept diary from that year, with that date clearly marked "Pizza Express Woking" . Money can buy you a lot of things, diaries included.

Guilty of having sex with a 17 year old and probably not even thinking about whether she was trafficked or coerced

However, I think there are some questions about Virginia Guiffre - I think it's interesting that she didn't give evidence at GM's trial basically because they thought her evidence wouldn't help the case and I am a bit cynical about her reasons for selecting Andrew of all the many men she must have had sex with over this period

Enko

I think he had sex with her but I do not think it ever entered his mind she was not willingly engaging with him. He simply wouldn't have been able to entertain the idea he was not a catch for any woman. I also believe he did not recall who she was originally as I don't think she was important to him as someone to remember.Legally that would make him not guilty. As I dont think she can prove he knew. I dont think he did as I dont think his entitled self could comprehend she was not wanting him.

Doesn't mean I don't believe she was trafficked just i dont think this case is a black and white situation

This is how I see it too. We may now say that she was trafficked, that she couldn't have consented etc. BUT all he has to say is that she was willing at the time, that she didn't say NO or show any resistance . And it would be very hard for the courts to prove that he knew she was coerced .

Don't know, do I?

@Classicblunder

Guilty of having sex with a 17 year old and probably not even thinking about whether she was trafficked or coerced

However, I think there are some questions about Virginia Guiffre - I think it's interesting that she didn't give evidence at GM's trial basically because they thought her evidence wouldn't help the case and I am a bit cynical about her reasons for selecting Andrew of all the many men she must have had sex with over this period

Oh my stop with the victim blaming already. VG is not in trial.

@Theunamedcat

Do people really believe the royal family kill people?

Yes.

@derxa

I don't give a fuck

Is that you Andrew?

@expat101

I would have thought if anyone saw P. Andy at a pizza place, they would have run to the media with photos of the event…

I wouldn't have at the time and neither would most of the people I know.

There are more interesting celebs in the area. Plus the Earl of Wessex doesn't live far from there and there are other minor royals who don't live too far either.

I do find it odd that no-one including staff have come out to back up his story. Everyone I know who has ever served someone who is a celeb, including z listers, mentions how polite or not they are.

@Enko

I think he had sex with her but I do not think it ever entered his mind she was not willingly engaging with him. He simply wouldn't have been able to entertain the idea he was not a catch for any woman. I also believe he did not recall who she was originally as I don't think she was important to him as someone to remember.

Legally that would make him not guilty. As I dont think she can prove he knew. I dont think he did as I dont think his entitled self could comprehend she was not wanting him.

Doesn't mean I don't believe she was trafficked just i dont think this case is a black and white situation

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense would wonder why a couple of multi millionaires are hanging around with school girls.

But of course he doesn't have any common sense.

Yeah guilty and I think he's horrid. Also stupid. If he had told the truth from the start I reckon he'd be fine now, just considered a stupid sleaze, as I'm sure his people would have been able to push the idea of him not knowing she was so young and trafficked. Yep I know 17 is legal but trafficked is not and I personally find the massive age gap more than questionable in a moral sense. I'm glad he lied though as hopefully this means he will need to stand trial etc and royalists can't make excuses for a liar.

I'm sure he's up to his eyeballs in sleaze. However I suspect he will have covered his tracks well, will have the absolute best lawyers going and there will never quite be robust enough evidence to actually convict him.

@backtolifebacktoreality

As if you can remember you were in a Pizza Express on a particular night many years later!

He's an arrogant arse!

He might not.

But if you were working there at the time and a senior member of the RF came in with two princesses, you would never forget. He would have an entourage of security with him too.

Where are the waiters and chefs who served him? Nobody has come forward to say his story is true ... because it's not

@SpindleSpangle

Indeed. As pp says, if he genuinely thinks he did nothing wrong, why not just say he had an ill-advised brief relationship with her? He was a divorced man, in effect single.

Instead he started telling a litany of lies - some of them really bizarre, like the sweating stuff and the pizza hut - and has ended up looking like, as Malcolm Tucker would say, a massive cunt.

And the sight of Fergie and the Princesses cavorting in Verbier is just vom.

Agree he is guilty of many things: • some inappropriate contact with a minor most likely intercourse • ridiculous lying about the sweating • ridiculous pretence that being in Pizza Express earlier that evening would prevent him being in a nightclub later that day

There are things that bizarrely give him arguments he could ( but won't) raise as a sort of psychological reduction of full responsibility. He has been brought up in an environment where he has a huge sense of princely entitlement. So all his life he will have been reminded of ancestors who have had free choice of any young subject, servant, courtier they wanted. Whilst what he did is still wrong ( so guilty) he has many precedents to make him think it's his birthright. In a way as a nation we have perpetuated that for centuries.
Do we know what JE and GM told him about VGs age? He should have been able to work it out. Also shows he didn't have any palace official or security officer to try and keep him in check.
So guilty. But probably many psychiatrists could be called to come up with arguments for very slightly reducing his sentence?

@GrazingSheep

I wonder what Princes Charles and William think ..

I'm sure they already knew about his fondness for young girls and were fine with it (like the whole family is with extra-marital affairs and the like) but are a bit pissed off that it's bringing bad publicity now, hence the 'shunning'.

Seriously, why people think that a monarchy is still a good idea is beyond me. This is a bunch of mediocre twerps with few morals (and yes, that goes for some of the more sainted members too) and one of them now is revealed to be closely involved in sex-trafficking. And they should rule over us because....?

@sweetbellyhigh

I know without a shadow of a doubt that he is in up to his neck, as are quite a few other big names still not publicly known. I know his personal masseuse.

Is that a euphemism?