Prince Andrew

[Tevion28]

Do you think guilty or innocent

If he can be prosecuted and sentenced for sleeping with a 17 year old who has been trafficked, then all the other men she and her fellow victims slept with will be guilty of the same crime?

That doesn't make sense?

DD and I were discussing when he might "disappear" (probs to South America) having had a serious accident/death. Atm he's not playing ball as he keeps going riding in Windsor park! Notice he hadn't gone on the usual skiing holiday this year. I feel sorry for his children and notice having always wanted to be active royals they quickly changed their minds after the interview and married wealthy men.

@Opheliaterradaclte

Grim. people think an old man having sex with a ‘willing’ 16 year old is ok? That alone is very dodgy moral grounds.

Either some desperate royal family supporters here or someone with no knowledge about teenage development and vulnerability. Also she looked like a child! Yuck yuck yuck.

We can't forget who created the laws in the first place.

Old white men.

Laws written for their benefit.

The difference between Andrew and all the other powerful men who may or may not have been part of the Epstein trafficking circle is the existence of the photograph proving that he at least met her.

As to the question of whether he knew she was trafficked.

Under the current U.K. trafficking laws from 2003 afaik it doesn’t matter whether he knew or not, any more than if he’d had sex with a trafficked Romanian prostitute. Those laws also made it a crime to have sex with a sex worker under 18. So either VG is a victim of sexual abuse coerced into sex with Andrew or she’s a coerced unwilling underage sex worker.

However these events happened in 2001 before the laws came in that would have given VG and her fellow abusees more protection.

He is definitely guilty of sleeping with her but how they'll prove he knew she was trafficked is another thing altogether. I can't see how they will.

@EdenFlower

If he can be prosecuted and sentenced for sleeping with a 17 year old who has been trafficked, then all the other men she and her fellow victims slept with will be guilty of the same crime?

Well yes. If he has committed a crime, him being prosecuted for it shouldn't be any less likely just because lots of other people committed the same crime too?!

Is it not possible that he simply didn't think too deeply about the girls and where they came from?

For decades, he was called Randy Andy. He was swamped with women who wanted to 'bag' a prince. He dated Koo Stark and evidently had to cool it as she had appeared in a semi-porn film.

Given he's not that sharp, is it possible he genuinely didn't know what these girls were? Living as a prince with all his privileges, he may also have been quite naiive.

As others have said, being mates with terrible people doesn't make anyone guilty of a crime, unless they aid and abet it.

Guilty as sin.
Although Virginia Guiffre was 17 ( therefore legal in UK) this didn’t happen in isolation. There must have been conversations, remarks by Maxwell and Epstein and others involved, and the huge clue that girls aged 17 and younger are not qualified masseuses.
But I expect he is so arrogant, so used to everything being served up to him, from his socks and toothbrush onwards, that he really didn’t care.
I really hope the US justice system goes after him with a vengeance.

@Tulipomania

The difference between Andrew and all the other powerful men who may or may not have been part of the Epstein trafficking circle is the existence of the photograph proving that he at least met her.

I presume there are other photos too, in the possession of Maxwell or Epstein, that were taken with a view to blackmail, should it be needed.

I loathe the royal family and would happily see the UK become a republic but I'm even more a fan of the rule of law soooooo... innocent until proven guilty.

Guilty. PA is arrogant so may not have wondered if VG wasn't 'just another Prince groupy' in his entitled head, at the very start. But there is NO chance he was not aware that JE wasnt dodgy after he'd been arrested.

Its not just PA sadly. Savile spent time at the Palace with Charles & was also a close personal friend of Thatcher. Those in power knew that these charismatic but corrupt men were bad but turned a blind eye as it suited them.

I think he's guilty but I suspect his money and power will ensure we will never know for sure. I hope I'm wrong though.

The age of consent in the UK is 16 and was in 2001.

Not that it changes his behaviour in any way but legally.....

I can’t remember the exact law and wording but in the podcast I linked to in my other post, Jim Clemente explains that if a person is trafficked from, or even just through, the US then theoretically the person having sex with the victim can be charged regardless of where the offence actually took place.

Jim Clemente worked in the FBI’s child trafficking/child sexual exploitation unit and is incredibly passionate about bringing abusers to justice. He’s a victim of CSE himself and managed to put his own abuser, a priest, behind bars decades after the abuse took place.

"I think the issue with the Royal Family is it is hereditary. You get who is born next. It is simply fate that Andrew is unlikely ever to be King"

Yes but the prospect of Prince Charles as the next soverign also leaves me utterly cold.

For all her work ethic, I also think the Queen herself (and no doubt the Prince of Edinburgh) should be held to account for going horribly wrong in not instilling some degree of morality and respect for the public at large in their children. People tend to never criticise the Queen, but even just the fact that Randy Andy is always described as the Queens "favourite" in itself speaks volumes (none of which is good).

One thing I would say about Andrew’s awareness of what went on at Epstein’s - having watched US documentaries on Epstein before the GM story broke - featuring interviews with staff at Epstein’s home in Florida - personally I don’t doubt he knew what was going on was untoward. There were young women visiting the house throughout the day every day. Everyone knew what was going on, all the staff.

It’s not normal to have a steady stream of teenage girls arrive at your hosts’s house at regular intervals and offer to give you massages and more.

What father of two girls does not know that’s not ok?

"Leaked footage shows a US TV anchor complaining that editors "quashed" a story about paedophile Jeffrey Epstein due to pressure from the Royal Family.
ABC's Amy Robach is seen in the clip griping that her interview with an alleged victim of Epstein and Prince Andrew never made it to air.
"The Palace found out and threatened us a million different ways," she says."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50296742?

It is astonishing that no-one remembers seeing Prince Andrew in Pizza Express.

I can remember the small number times I have seen celebrities in ordinary places going back decades.

Including Princess Anne in WH Smith in Cirencester in the 1970s.

As guilty as he is thick, i.e. very.

JinglingHellsBells

Yes and that law itself needs updating. The 16 year old girls I know are no where emotionally mature enough to be having sex.
I admit policing it is very difficult but the idea of 16 (if i remember correctly back in the day, it was 16 to have sex, 16 to get married with your parents express consent (!!) and 18 to get married without your parents consent.

Antiquated.

@CharityDingle I agree, there are likely hundreds/thousands of photos that will make a lot of people very uncomfortable. It’s very probable the infamous photo of PA was taken by Epstein himself, I’m sure he would have done this for all his “guests” as an insurance policy.

Guilty as hell

@bubblesbubbles11 I am not at all keen on Charles either. All those alleged cash for honours.
I think the Royal Family have been very lucky that the Queen has lived so long.

Not RTFT but I think he is most likely guilty, however innocent until proven guilty and all that. However, he will never have his day in court and this is what annoys me more than anything.

I love the Queen and the work that she and some of the other royals do. But people like Andrew add absolutely no value to the public whatsoever, contributes nothing. People like him shouldn’t get a penny from the public purse. I absolutely see why Charles is slimming the royals down to the direct line only. And obviously the one who cares most is Andrew. Fewer freebies for him and his family. I loathe people like him.
(I really need to get off the fence)