Child maintenance/ childcare

[Sofiegiraffe]

Why is the cost of childcare not included in a CM calculation? Surely it should be taken into account and half of it taken from the NRP's wage? Why is it that I would be entitled to the same amount from my DD's dad in maintenance whether I was a SAHM with no childcare costs, or if I went to work FT and paid £600 a month for nursery? Surely that's a bit unfair 🤔

I'll tell you even more, even the court seems to treat childcare costs as optional / lifestyle choice when looking at the financial needs of the parties. After all, you can also ask a neighbour for a favour to babysit, a reasonable amount of course, say 50 hrs per week, no need to PAY for it.

I agree with you. It should be an additional contribution so that both parents bear the cost. (That looks strange, should it be bare?)

Absolutely agree with you. Luckily I had help from universal credit as DD was still in nursery when I suddenly became a single parent, otherwise I would have had to pull her out. Can you get help off them or tax free childcare?

The list of things wrong with the CMA is endless

Hmmmm, I think perhaps it would work if the NRP had a say in it (e.g number of days / where they go) otherwise I think it's a bit off that they could be presented with half a bill for something they didn't get a say in. It's definitely a tough one! I think it was also lead to the RP having to justify working patterns / choices which could cause a lot of arguments!

I don’t know I get £7 a week for 4 kids 🙄

@MrzClaus

Hmmmm, I think perhaps it would work if the NRP had a say in it (e.g number of days / where they go) otherwise I think it's a bit off that they could be presented with half a bill for something they didn't get a say in. It's definitely a tough one! I think it was also lead to the RP having to justify working patterns / choices which could cause a lot of arguments!

If the NRP gets a say in the number of days and wants to pay for only, say, 50% of 4 working days and not 5 - surely they are volunteering to provide the childcare on day 5 then? So RP can work FT if they want / need to?

I should say that my outrage at this is based on the assumption that NRP chooses to work FT and is therefore providing zero childcare. As well as not contributing to the childcare bill.

Because childcare is a woman’s job, and if she doesn’t want to do it herself and farm her kids out to a nursery that’s her choice. Obv. Why should the man have to pay for her wanting to work? She gets full lone parent benefits so she doesn’t need to work.

According to my ex.

This is a tricky one. I know that if my 3yo went to FT nursery and I sent his dad the bill for half the cost, he would not be able to afford it. Luckily, he goes to preschool which is totally funded so we don't pay anything and the only childcare costs are holiday clubs for the eldest. The problem is that each family is different and has different childcare costs that it would cost too much to administrate every single case differently, which I suppose is why they do a blanket approach of X% of salary.

I do think the majority of working single parents, unless they have a high income, will benefit either from UC helping out with the cost of childcare, or tax free childcare, or childcare vouchers / family help
/ perhaps a combination of above

@itsmellslikepopcarn

Absolutely agree with you. Luckily I had help from universal credit as DD was still in nursery when I suddenly became a single parent, otherwise I would have had to pull her out. Can you get help off them or tax free childcare?

Yes I'm entitled to some UC.

Realistically what would happen if men were made to pay half of childcare fees is they would remove the child from childcare for half the week and leave them with their mothers/girlfriends or have them themselves Whistler working from home.

@Sofiegiraffe

"If the NRP gets a say in the number of days and wants to pay for only, say, 50% of 4 working days and not 5 - surely they are volunteering to provide the childcare on day 5 then? So RP can work FT if they want / need to?"

I think that it depends - if the RP has a full time job and so does the NRP (so they definitely need full time childcare) then I think they should both get to decide where the child goes if the RP wants 50% of costs covered. But if the RP say only works 3 days, but wants 5 days childcare I think the NRP shouldn't be on the hook then. Or perhaps if there's other childcare being utilised like family / partners. Or for example if the RP wants to send the child to a mega expensive Montessori nursery (for example!) rather than a childminder / regular nursery then the NRP shouldn't have to pay all of the extra without having a say in that.

Im commenting as if this is a hypothetical discussion about future CMS reforms 🤷🏻‍♀️ I'm not sure how they'd ever manage something like this either.

Ideally each parent would pay half the actual cost of raising a child but good luck getting that to happen!

CMS don't work anything out based on what the RP or children need. It's all based on NRP income.

I tell you what’s even more unfair, when they refuse to pay 🤷‍♀️

It is absolutely criminal that NRPs don't have to cover 50% of childcare costs. If the cost of childcare, housing etc is so high they can't afford to live then they can claim universal credit - the same as a RP would have to.

I couldn't agree more with you OP

CMS or court maintenance orders should include other parent also paying half the childcare costs unless it is 50:50 shared care through the working week.
We would see a lot more women able to maintain their careers and not struggling financially after divorce or separation if that happened
I wish I only had to pay 22% of my wages to cover costs for my 3DCs - it doesn't cover childcare costs nor child expenses . I spend nearly 100% my wages in those and keeping roof over their head, bills and food for them. If I had 78% my wages for my expenses only I'd be RICH!!

Not reeeeaaallly rich but I'd feel rich (to have any money to spend on me. I cut my own hair, my car is old, I wear second hand eBay clothes or anything I find on sale and my trainers are hand me downs from my teenage son !)

You're so right. But it won't change anything OP

[quote MrzClaus]@Sofiegiraffe

"If the NRP gets a say in the number of days and wants to pay for only, say, 50% of 4 working days and not 5 - surely they are volunteering to provide the childcare on day 5 then? So RP can work FT if they want / need to?"

I think that it depends - if the RP has a full time job and so does the NRP (so they definitely need full time childcare) then I think they should both get to decide where the child goes if the RP wants 50% of costs covered. But if the RP say only works 3 days, but wants 5 days childcare I think the NRP shouldn't be on the hook then. Or perhaps if there's other childcare being utilised like family / partners. Or for example if the RP wants to send the child to a mega expensive Montessori nursery (for example!) rather than a childminder / regular nursery then the NRP shouldn't have to pay all of the extra without having a say in that.

Im commenting as if this is a hypothetical discussion about future CMS reforms 🤷🏻‍♀️ I'm not sure how they'd ever manage something like this either. [/quote]

The scenario I'm asking about is:

• both RP and NRP needing and wanting to work FT
• bog standard average price childcare chosen by and agreed upon by both prior to split
• No family help at all so only option is paid childcare

Yes. I have looked into this myself - plugged numbers into gov website to see how much I would be entitled to should I become a single parent.

It's astounding that RP would have to bare the cost of childcare on top of everything else should the NRP just decide to fuck off. As many do.

It's an absolute shit show & something needs to be done.

Also it's so irritating that people assume everyone has friends/family who will be willing to look after a child. Yes babysitting every now and again but that's very different to being someone's FT childcare provider - as if said friend/family member isn't entitled to a life of their own.

@Tee20x

Also it's so irritating that people assume everyone has friends/family who will be willing to look after a child. Yes babysitting every now and again but that's very different to being someone's FT childcare provider - as if said friend/family member isn't entitled to a life of their own.

Yeah I hate this assumption too. I have no family to help. Not one person.

Yup I was working full time and paying for childcare my ex thought nothing of dropping the kids on me on his days despite him not contributing to the childcare and assuming I could actually get it most of the time I had to leave work it has cost me my last two jobs

He also had a "cancer scare" when I took my driving theory test to try and prevent me taking it and suddenly the day before my practical he decided he couldn't take his own children to school knowing full well I needed him to so I could take my test luckily after the theory test debacle I had four back ups 😀 he literally called within 10 minutes of the childcare closing so I couldn't book them in for the morning

Lesson learned