Child maintenance/ childcare

[Sofiegiraffe]

Why is the cost of childcare not included in a CM calculation? Surely it should be taken into account and half of it taken from the NRP's wage? Why is it that I would be entitled to the same amount from my DD's dad in maintenance whether I was a SAHM with no childcare costs, or if I went to work FT and paid £600 a month for nursery? Surely that's a bit unfair 🤔

Of course the RP is enabling the NRP to work. What would they do if the RP dropped the DC on his doorstep at 7am on Monday?
The vast majority* of NRPs go to work and don't think about childcare. Because it isn't their problem.

• yes some NRPs step up and pay/share childcare. Yes some would like more contact time and there are some nasty RPs who block this. But the vast vast majority of NRPs would like their exes to have more contact. Its just bullshit that they don't allow it for the maintenance. The amount I'd save if my dc weren't here a few nights per week is more than their DF is meant to pay for them. (Note meant not does)

Ffs you have been old repeatedly that many nrps do not want 50/50 because a) it means they'd actually have to parent and not just piss about being a fun uncle for a couple of days and b) they realise that it would cost them a damn sight more than the maintenance. Its not even so much the cost of obvious things like food but if you're 50/50 you do and pay for half the activities, (subs and kit), run them about everywhere (petrol), you have to have proper childcare in place and / or you cannot work and earn as much. As I said upthread, my ex and I have the same job and earn about the same but HE, should he choose could seek promotion, a longer commute, a second evening job if he wanted because I am facilitating that by raising our children alone. I would LOVE him to have them 50/50. He doesn't and never did want that. And he's fairly typical.

Some of the ideas about NRPs suggested here are laughable, here's my example.

Before splitting, my EXDP would threaten that he'd be taking the DC to live with him full-time, so I should think carefully about what I wanted to do regarding our relationship.

Upon splitting he announced he'd be renting a 1 bedroom flat (he has 3 DC, including the 2 we share), and has seen the DC on average one weekend a month since then. This is a Nan who earns more than twice the average wage and has almost six figures worth of house proceeds in the bank, so is far from destitute.

He has just announced he's going abroad for 6 weeks over Christmas, so clearly won't be seeing the DC at all, and expects me to continue doing everything.

None of the above was discussed with anyone, since splitting he has never even hinted that he wants to split care, because it suits him to have all his free time to himself bar 2 days on a month. RPs cannot take NRPs to court to
force NRPs to see their DC, so in reality it's the NRP obstructing greater access to their DC, not the RP.

My EXDP is typical of all the NRPs I have ever come across.

*man not Nan

Everyone here seems to be drawing generalisations from their own situations.

Some nrp pay large amount of maintenance, others pay peanuts or nothing.

Some nrp are not interested in seeing their kids more than a day a week, some would love to have 50/50.

Some are not much involved in the day to day life of their kids, some are.

Some RP get the large proportion of their childcare costs paid via benefits, some get peanuts or nothing.

Some RP wish the nrp was more involved in day to day decisions, some want to make all the decisions because they are the main carer.

Some RP would be fine with their ex knowing what they claim in benefits, others certainly wouldn't because it's none of their business.

That's why trying to make a stand on behalf of all RPs and NRPs is totally pointless.

@vivainsomnia and this is why the CMS service will never work because everybody is different.

[quote Rebornagain]@MrsRobbieHart that is such a rubbish argument the RP is enabling the NRP to
work. The 50/50 option is there but is not used cos they won't get maintenance money.

I also think your being very nieve to think the RP will tell the NRP how much they are getting in benefits for childcare etc[/quote]
How do you make someone have 50/50 who doesn’t want to see their children and hasn’t bothered in 4 years? 🤔 who also lives 2 hours away in a HMO so wouldn’t even be able to have them 50/50 anyway?

and this is why the CMS service will never work because everybody is different
Absolutely, but any better system would require more staff to run, so be even costlier and there is much better ways nowadays to spend the little available.

Ultimately, it's for the parents to grow up and start acting in the best I thereat if the kids rather then focusing in their own battles.

Yes well that would be ideal wouldn't it but people are arseholes, especially when it comes to money. That's like saying we shouldn't have prison cos everyone just should behave. Whatever the issue, whether thats the RP or NRP, male or female, the only way to do it fairly would be for an independent case worker to look at each couple on a yearly basis

It’s a completely flawed system in the first instance. My friend’s ex somehow gets away with paying £270 a month for three DC and sees them for a grand total of 12 hours a month, no overnight stays because his house isn’t big enough . She spends £100 a month for her eldest’s bus pass and dinner money now he’s at secondary school and her other two will follow over the next 2 years so all of his money will just go on that plus £30 of her own. He claims he’s skint so can’t pay any extra yet has a massive TV, new games console, expensive phone etc. Absolute wankpot.

Honestly can’t believe men get away with it. If they barely see their children so therefore barely feed them, they should pay a lot more.

@Rebornagain

I'll try again.

*What about NRPs who REFUSE to do 50/50 because that would leave them either unable to work FT, or having to fund their own childcare (which they are reluctant to do). So they choose not to have that option?! Then what? RP picks up the slack, of course, either in terms of having to drop hours at work or paying more in childcare.
*
It's bold in the hope you actually read it and understand it this time around.

*What about NRPs who REFUSE to do 50/50 because that would leave them either unable to work FT, or having to fund their own childcare (which they are reluctant to do). So they choose not to have that option?! Then what? RP picks up the slack, of course, either in terms of having to drop hours at work or paying more in childcare.
**

Ahh well, bold isn't working. Let's hope you're able to just read it anyway .... I won't hold my breath.

Oh and BTW the RP is enabling the NRP to work, by simply being the RP. If you only have to physically care for your children two nights a fortnight then you have a huge amount of time and flexibility to earn. Enabled by the RP providing 24/7 care for the other 12 days of the fortnight. So yeah, would be nice if the NRP paid back some of that salary the RP enabled them to earn.

ALL OF THIS!

Do you know what's funny about @Rebornagain argument as well. I'd go for 50/50 if my DD's father wanted it, I really would. So yeah... I'm clearly a maintenance grabbing good for nothing scrounger, aren't I. Especially when I earn more than he does and have several professional degrees and qualifications. Right.

OP, you're making this too personal.

In YOUR case, it sounds like it would be fair that he contributed towards childcare. It doesn't mean it is always fair.

Of course the OP is taking it personally. Its her thread! Not too mention the fact that OPs situation is far from unusual!

If I started a thread about how annoying my mum is it would be personal because it's about my mum. The fact that someone else's mum is lovely doesn't make mine less annoying.

@vivainsomnia

OP, you're making this too personal.

In YOUR case, it sounds like it would be fair that he contributed towards childcare. It doesn't mean it is always fair.

😂 erm, yes. Because it's my thread 🤔😂

@CiaoForDiNiaoSaur thank you for getting it!

Wouldn't most single income parents receive some form of help towards childcare unless they are already high earners? I'm assuming this is why as it would complicate tax credit / UC / tax free childcare claims?

And it is highly irritating when posters like @Rebornagain come onto threads to push their own agenda without actually reading or taking into account the Op's circumstances and specific questions. They have repeatedly ignored my own and other posters pointing out how narrow their view is and not representative of the norm, because it doesn't suit their personal agenda to acknowledge it. If they feel strongly about the issues they are trying to derail my thread with, they can start their own can't they...

@FawnFrenchieMum

Wouldn't most single income parents receive some form of help towards childcare unless they are already high earners? I'm assuming this is why as it would complicate tax credit / UC / tax free childcare claims?

I am entitled to less than 50% of my FT childcare costs based on my salary

@vivainsomnia

OP, you're making this too personal.

In YOUR case, it sounds like it would be fair that he contributed towards childcare. It doesn't mean it is always fair.

But it is hardly an unusual case. And the OP's point was that there's nothing in terms of enforcement or legal entitlement that can be used to fix the situation.

Many RPs don't get a penny in benefits or childcare subsidies, and the "official" maintenance is peanuts compared to the actual cost of the children.

I think the whole maintenance system has been developed around an assumption that the RP is a SAHM not qualified to do any jobs and will be mainly supported by the state, and money from the NRP is effectively then "fun money". In reality there's more and more professional women who are becoming single parents, and they have to "compete" in a way (in the economic sense - for childcare, housing, other living expenses) against double-income families.

We already covered this. Not all single parents get financial help with childcare and what is being suggested is that whatever it costs AFTER gov contributions are taken account of is split equally, or the nrp can choose to do the childcare thseles and impact their own career accordingly.

@HugeAckmansWife

Yes - you've got my point spot on.