Page 6 | Child maintenance/ childcare

Sofiegiraffe · 2021-10-12T14:47:40+00:00

Why is the cost of childcare not included in a CM calculation? Surely it should be taken into account and half of it taken from the NRP's wage? Why is it that I would be entitled to the same amount from my DD's dad in maintenance whether I was a SAHM with no childcare costs, or if I went to work FT and paid £600 a month for nursery? Surely that's a bit unfair 🤔

Original poster

Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 17:43

I still waiting to find out what terms RPs are allegedly "dictating". Think I'll be waiting a while...

OP posts:

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur · 13/10/2021 17:50

@Sofiegiraffe

I still waiting to find out what terms RPs are allegedly "dictating". Think I'll be waiting a while...

Well according to my ex MIL I was dictating and banning her son from seeing his DC one weekend. Apparently it was totally out of order of me and I should be ashamed. I replied to her with screenshots of our conversation where I informed him they were on holiday for the weekend, but that he could have them any days during the week to make up for it. He didn't want to.

Of course the weekends he cancelled because he was on a "family holiday" were totally acceptable!

HugeAckmansWife · 13/10/2021 18:24

rebornagaun leaving aside the many billion of unpaid maintenance owed, the point the op and many others are making is that the legal amount is, in most cases, derisory and nowhere near 50% of costs so saying 'its the legal amount' doesn't really contribute. For every NRPS who are genuinely trying to see their dcs more and being prevented, I'll give you hundreds who absolutely do not want 50/50 and only see their kids when they aren't busy with anything else. My ex refused to have them over lockdown because of work. We do the exact same job, but I have to juggle it. Not all single parents don't work... But their hours and opportunities are hugely limited, a hidden cost of children that is borne by the RP alone. As for 'how do I know its spent on the kids' Well, you either trust that it is or feel free to care for them 50/50 and then no money need change hands.

Resilience · 13/10/2021 18:49

I agree with you OP.

My DC no longer have any childcare costs, but when they were younger I was running at a loss, despite earning decent money because of childcare costs. Something their father never had to worry about.

CMS were a complete waste of time in my situation as x was self-employed.

Back in the days my DC were young, the childcare element of tax credits started to reduce the minute you earned more than full time NMW so if you were on say a fairly modest salary of £20,000 you could expect contribution of about 50%. I'm assuming it's similar now. If you're not getting any other income childcare costs can be prohibitive to working for many.

My solution is that childcare should before heavily subsidised anyway, on line with nearly every other Western European country (and especially since our own previous governments encouraged us to move away from family networks to seek out work) and that maintenance should be paid by the government who should then reclaim it through the tax code of the NRP. HMRC never seem to have any trouble getting what they're owed. Win win for child/RP and the government!

JustLyra · 13/10/2021 18:56

HMRC never seem to have any trouble getting what they're owed. Win win for child/RP and the government!

They’ll never do that until a government actually thinking’s that maintenance is important.

RP’s on benefits used to be allowed to keep £20 a week and the rest went to the Sec of State to go toward the benefits bill.

With so many non-payers the government decided that “something” must be done. Of all the options they had - push CSA/CMS to use their vast powers, take it from non-payers tax codes etc etc - they chose “ach just let people keep it all”.

No government of any colour since has had a different stance. There’s the occasional faux push, but it’s never sustained in staffing levels or encouraging CMS to use their powers.

Maybebaby8 · 13/10/2021 19:11

I absolutely agree with you, the CM i received doesn't even cover the cost of the childcare i pay. Their dad does non of the school runs it all falls to me. It's completely unfair

Rebornagain · 13/10/2021 20:00

We are not on about dads that don't pay , I agree that is neglect and dads that don't pay should be jailed.

The RP does get to dictate the terms, I believe somebody said up thread if the dad wants to fight access let him go to court and fight for it. That is a sickening attitude.

Most Resident Parents get to dictate when and how often child can see NRP. Why is the only help always monetary?

The reality is there isn't enough money you are basically saying the nrp should be at behest to what the RP wants

Original poster

Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 21:05

@Rebornagain

We are not on about dads that don't pay , I agree that is neglect and dads that don't pay should be jailed.

The RP does get to dictate the terms, I believe somebody said up thread if the dad wants to fight access let him go to court and fight for it. That is a sickening attitude.

Most Resident Parents get to dictate when and how often child can see NRP. Why is the only help always monetary?

The reality is there isn't enough money you are basically saying the nrp should be at behest to what the RP wants

You are spectacularly missing the point of the thread.

Who do you think should be responsible for childcare costs when both RP and NRP work FT? RP, NRP, or both equally? That's my question essentially.

You're bringing in multiple irrelevant and tangential issues and derailing the thread.

OP posts:

Rebornagain · 13/10/2021 21:42

Ultimately why should a NRP pay for the childcare on the days not allocated to them.

Cake and eating eat springs to mind. Ultimately not my issue. If you want to work full time thats fine but unless 50/50 access is granted why should a NRP incur the cost

Original poster

Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 21:43

@Rebornagain

Ultimately why should a NRP pay for the childcare on the days not allocated to them.

Cake and eating eat springs to mind. Ultimately not my issue. If you want to work full time thats fine but unless 50/50 access is granted why should a NRP incur the cost

What about an NRP who doesn't want 50/50 because he wants to keep his FT job, but also doesn't think he should contribute to childcare? I'm guessing you think that's also fair enough right?

OP posts:

MrsRobbieHart · 13/10/2021 21:58

Ultimately why should a NRP pay for the childcare on the days not allocated to them.

That’s like asking why should a NRP pay for food/clothes/gas on days not allocated to them. do you understand what maintenance is?

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur · 13/10/2021 22:09

@Rebornagain

Ultimately why should a NRP pay for the childcare on the days not allocated to them.

Cake and eating eat springs to mind. Ultimately not my issue. If you want to work full time thats fine but unless 50/50 access is granted why should a NRP incur the cost

So it's OK for RPs to not work full time? And what? The NRP pays maintenance or they sit around claiming £thousands in benefits? Because apparently that's not allowed either.

My ex refused to have the dc for more than 6 hours per week. Apparently it wasn't convenient. He also cancels when something else comes up. Yet he also refused to pay anything towards childcare because it "wasn't his problem".

So apparently I have to work full time, do all the childcare, not claim any benefits ever at all and don't expect the poor ex to contribute either because "man". No wonder I had a nervous breakdown!!!

Rebornagain · 13/10/2021 22:14

@MrsRobbieHart I understand perfectly well what maintenance is for but when the child is in the RP care the NRP should not have to pay childcare to enable you to work. You are no longer a family unit so it shouldn't be treated like one.

Again a lot of this would be resolved if 50/50 was the expected norm where possible.

You see it on here all the time, if child is in the NRP care they should foot the bill so why should the NRP have to foot some of the childcare cost

Eve81 · 13/10/2021 22:21

I think the theory is, you split the childcare and they have to pay their half. Obviously doesn’t translate to real life though.

JustLyra · 13/10/2021 22:25

@Rebornagain

Ultimately why should a NRP pay for the childcare on the days not allocated to them.

Cake and eating eat springs to mind. Ultimately not my issue. If you want to work full time thats fine but unless 50/50 access is granted why should a NRP incur the cost

Cake and eating it is exactly what springs to mind - that’s usually exactly what the NRP wants.

Complete freedom to choose their own work pattern, access that fits in around that and zero responsibility for childcare the rest of the time.

Rebornagain · 13/10/2021 22:25

@CiaoForDiNiaoSaur no one is saying that. It's unfortunate that your ex is a being an idiot and in your case I have every sympathy.

The RP gets the maintenance + child benefit + universal credit if applicable .

Let's be realistic about this the average pay is 30k a year about 2k a month. If the NRP has them 4nights over a 2wk period that roughly 350 a month. It's on average 1000 pound per month for a full time child you halve that it is 500 a month.

How is the NRp expected to live on 1200 a month? They can't

Rebornagain · 13/10/2021 22:29

@JustLyra maybe the RP should offer 50/50 in the first place then would be fair then.

Ultimately when family split there is no winner.

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur · 13/10/2021 22:29

Well me and 2 teens live on roughly £1450 pm so...

And no one is saying the NRP should pay half of childcare if the RP is getting UC toward it. Just half of what's left. Because they are his dc too. (Or hers if mum is the nrp). And because he (or she) also needs them to be in childcare to work.
Unless you think single parents should be allowed to sah for years and years claiming benefits?

MrsRobbieHart · 13/10/2021 22:29

I understand perfectly well what maintenance is for but when the child is in the RP care the NRP should not have to pay childcare to enable you to work. You are no longer a family unit so it shouldn't be treated like one.

Erm, the childcare enables the NRP to work too!! You don’t get to opt out of your childcare obligations just because you no longer live with your child! If you work and have a child then you need to either pay for childcare or arrange some sort of free childcare with someone. That goes for both parents. Just like if you don’t live with your child you still have to provide for their food and clothing needs- their physical care is a need too. If you are a parent who works you should expect to pay for childcare.

MrsRobbieHart · 13/10/2021 22:34

I understand perfectly well what maintenance is for but when the child is in the RP care the NRP should not have to pay childcare to enable you to work. You are no longer a family unit so it shouldn't be treated like one.

Oh and BTW the RP is enabling the NRP to work, by simply being the RP. If you only have to physically care for your children two nights a fortnight then you have a huge amount of time and flexibility to earn. Enabled by the RP providing 24/7 care for the other 12 days of the fortnight. So yeah, would be nice if the NRP paid back some of that salary the RP enabled them to earn.

MrsRobbieHart · 13/10/2021 22:37

How is the NRp expected to live on 1200 a month? They can't

I live on less than that and house and feed and everything else for my two DC.

JustLyra · 13/10/2021 22:40

[quote Rebornagain]@JustLyra maybe the RP should offer 50/50 in the first place then would be fair then.

Ultimately when family split there is no winner.[/quote]
Do you realise how few NRP’s actually want 50/50?

MrsRobbieHart · 13/10/2021 22:41

50/50 is rarely in the best interests of the child.

Rebornagain · 13/10/2021 22:49

@MrsRobbieHart that is such a rubbish argument the RP is enabling the NRP to
work. The 50/50 option is there but is not used cos they won't get maintenance money.

I also think your being very nieve to think the RP will tell the NRP how much they are getting in benefits for childcare etc

MrsRobbieHart · 13/10/2021 22:51

that is such a rubbish argument the RP is enabling the NRP to
work.

It’s literally what is happening. Sorry you don’t understand it. I’m not sure how to explain it in another way.

I also think your being very nieve to think the RP will tell the NRP how much they are getting in benefits for childcare etc

If it was done through CMS and UC/TC all linked up properly the RP wouldn’t have to tell the NRP.