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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Child maintenance/ childcare

177 replies

Sofiegiraffe · 12/10/2021 15:47

Why is the cost of childcare not included in a CM calculation? Surely it should be taken into account and half of it taken from the NRP's wage? Why is it that I would be entitled to the same amount from my DD's dad in maintenance whether I was a SAHM with no childcare costs, or if I went to work FT and paid £600 a month for nursery? Surely that's a bit unfair 🤔

OP posts:
Original poster
Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 08:28

And when I say liable for childcare I mean he either works FT if he so chooses and pays half the childcare bill, or he provides the childcare himself if he doesn't want to pay half the bill.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 08:32

if childcare is then required, it’s an additional cost so it should be added on to the child maintenance.

This! Completely my point

OP posts:
martingrowler · 13/10/2021 09:51

No you don't have to be on "good money" to nit meet the criteria for your childcare to be assisted by benefits, not really. Say you bring home £2300 a month, so you aren't entitled to benefits. Then your rent is £1000 and your childcare is £1300 (both standard) your ex gives you his 15%, say, £300 assuming you're on a similar salary to each other.

How is it okay that you both earn the same, neither gets benefits, but he's contributing £300 and you're contributing £1000 straight off the bat even before food, clothes and everything else is taken in to account?

The woman in this scenario would be forced to give up work or take a far lower paying role so she could claim benefits for childcare because the money for childcare just wouldn't be there.

vivainsomnia · 13/10/2021 09:54

Where have you read this? Or is that just what you think happens?
It's pretty obvious if you go by the average salary and that women as a whole earn less. You still get entitlement to childcare costs on an average income. Not 80%, but something, especially when you can deduct pension contributions.

MrsRobbieHart · 13/10/2021 09:57

So you haven’t read it anywhere. Just assuming. Thanks. Thats what I thought.

TurnUpTurnip · 13/10/2021 09:57

Glad to see this thread actually as MN always bleats on about how there is no stigma anymore towards single mums, this thread shows there is which I’ve always said there still is, it’s just not as open as it use to be but yes people do still silently judge single mums as benefit scrounging, raking in thousands in maintenance, work shy, stopping the father seeing the kids so they can get maximum maintenance 🤦🏻 The stigma is still there. So people can stop going on about how there is no stigma anymore.

forinborin · 13/10/2021 11:02

In a very very simple scenario. Let's say you need 4 full days of childcare. You give XH a bill for 2 days. He says no but I'll have little Keith overnight for two extra nights per week as my mum has offered 2 days childcare. Would that be an acceptable solution?

How does having overnight help with the childcare costs?

That's what my ex pulled in court the first time it was litigated, and ended in almost 50/50. He did not see the reason why "his" time should start earlier than 7pm, as he's not back from work anyway and the children are in nursery. He could do only 7pm to 7am care, outside the working hours. So the court awarded two overnights to him 7pm to 7am, and every other weekend, not to overlap with the important man's work. He of course quickly bailed out of that, it turned out to be too stressful, and went awol.

I worked full time at the same level of seniority, and with the same salary, but no one really gave a fuck that I would need childcare during the working hours to continue.

Pinkspecs · 13/10/2021 11:05

Yanbu NRPs get away with far too much.
The system is a joke.

forinborin · 13/10/2021 11:07

@Goldbar

How entitled these single mothers can be! Their childcare is already subsidised by the taxpayer on top of £4K/month maintenance and benefits

49% of children in lone parent households in the UK are living in poverty. It isn't entitlement to want your children to have a decent standard of living (supported by both parents).

It was a failed attempt at sarcasm. I am a single mother of two, working full time, and getting £1/month in child maintenance. Just finished paying off childcare loans.
Viviennemary · 13/10/2021 11:33

The point is if fathers aren't made to pay whose responsibility is it. I just don't feel it's mine. When I have my own family to worry about.

vivainsomnia · 13/10/2021 12:29

But it does operate on each individual case. Maintenance is based on each individual NRPs salary
Yes, but not on the rp own income nor childcare costs. They are already overwhelmed with the current process and certainly can't add more variable elements.

So you haven’t read it anywhere. Just assuming. Thanks. Thats what I thought
No, I have read it in various means but rely can't be bothered to do a search to retrieve it to point an obvious point to you because you don't believe it.

MrsRobbieHart · 13/10/2021 12:31
Grin
Dddccc · 13/10/2021 12:41

Unfortunately we have the issue of if the nrp earns say 1500 pays 300 cms leave pays 700 rent bills come to say 300 that leaves them with only 300 a month for food and travel ect where should the money come from however if the rp earns the same amount they would receive an extra £140 ish a week from tax credits plus the 300 cms then they can get help with childcare costs also so once again its down to individual circumstances

HugeAckmansWife · 13/10/2021 12:43

Vivain it really doesn't matter if the RP is a millionaire. That would not absolve the nrp of contributing. If the cms is overwhelmed it needs proper funding and staffing and their systems need to be linked with HMRCs to make it easier to identify obvious fraud and misrepresentation.

Goldbar · 13/10/2021 16:07

Sorry @forinborin Blush. Sounds like you're unfortunately well aware how shit it is. On what planet can you raise a child on £2 per month?

Groovee · 13/10/2021 16:37

My friend's ex paid half of the childcare costs but wouldn't pay maintenance.

Rebornagain · 13/10/2021 17:02

The Child Maintenance system sucks for everybody.

  1. Why should the RP get to dictate the terms to the NRP. There is a conflict of interest straight away as it becomes about money and not child interest.
  1. Paying the agreed CMS fee is fair as it is the legal amount to pay. Remembering the housing costs will likely be same for both parents.

If you want 50/50 money to be spent on children allow 50/50 access then.

3 - why should a NRP have to go to court to agree a certain amount of access

  1. Seen it on this thread I don't want his mother looking after my child so won't agree when it is a good enough solution.
  1. How do I as a NRP know you will spend the money on childcare? Do I get a say where they go?

I

Original poster
Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 17:05

Seen it on this thread I don't want his mother looking after my child so won't agree when it is a good enough solution.

It would be a "good enough" solution if she was intellectually and emotionally capable of keeping a child safe, yes. In my case she is not.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 17:06

Why should the RP get to dictate the terms to the NRP.

Please elaborate on the terms you believe RPs are dictating?

OP posts:
Original poster
Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 17:07

If you want 50/50 money to be spent on children allow 50/50 access then.

In my case, again, this wouldn't work as he wouldn't want that due to his FT job.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 17:09

How do I as a NRP know you will spend the money on childcare? Do I get a say where they go?

What a ridiculous argument. If I didn't spent it on childcare my DD would very quickly lose her place at the childminders, I imagine. Unless I made up the shortfall of the other half from my own pocket, thus keeping her place secure, yet putting myself further out of pocket anyway? Why would I want to do that to myself?

OP posts:
Original poster
Sofiegiraffe · 13/10/2021 17:10

Do I get a say where they go?

In my case this was jointly agreed with us both meeting the childminder. In terms of location, it was mutually agreed that the childcare setting would be commutable from my work rather than his, as he doesn't want to be the one called upon to collect her if she's sick ....of course he doesn't. Silly me. His job is so much important because he's male, after all. Hmm

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 13/10/2021 17:13

Whole system needs a total overhaul and sanctions. Not paying for your child is neglect. If couple are together man needs to pay half childcare, if they split he’s off hook and either mum pays full lot or taxpayer not dad contributes (UC)

martingrowler · 13/10/2021 17:29

@Dixiechickonhols

Whole system needs a total overhaul and sanctions. Not paying for your child is neglect. If couple are together man needs to pay half childcare, if they split he’s off hook and either mum pays full lot or taxpayer not dad contributes (UC)
It is neglect isn't it. If I didn't feed or clothe my daughter I'd have social services round but her dad has no such obligation
Goldbar · 13/10/2021 17:35

So many excuses given for men not paying their share of what it costs to bring up their children.

"It's the legal amount" - well yes, but many dads don't even pay enough to cover school lunches.

What if mums only paid the "legal amount" as well? How could you fund a child on £80 per month? That just about covers one nursery day around here.