AIBU to ask Mumsnet to reconsider a decision

[Mummyoflittledragon]

… to relegate certain threads from the AIBU board.

I imagine AIBU is probably the most active board on Mumsnet and therefore reaches the highest audience. Now when someone creates a thread about children’s boundaries being crossed by certain people and women being scared into silence and being attacked by certain groups, the thread quickly disappears out of AIBU and onto another board.

Once off AIBU, the thread receives far less exposure thus radically reduces the possibility to offer information to the widest possible audience. Information, which could be used to help people and particularly women make safety and / or safeguarding decisions about themselves and their children.

Mumsnet to me is like the BBC (in its hey day) of parenting sites. And as Mumsnet is renowned for being such an esteemed hub for information, AIBU to ask Mumsnet to not give in to outside pressure from certain groups and to stop relegating important informational threads without looking at the wider implications.

@endofthelinefinally

Sorry Mummyoflittledragon. I am bowing out now. The deliberate misrepresentation of the issue is upsetting. Of course the point of the thread is the moving of threads.

I understand. Thank you. I’m sorry this is upsetting for you

I don’t think the thread should be moved. I think it seems like a poll of this could be useful.

I am still trying to understand this but there seems to be a lot to discuss.

I think is seems to be about an exposed penis next to a little girl and something that happened recently. Can the posters who don’t want to discuss on AIBU tell me why?

Yes it was a very upsetting video earlier of a young woman and her daughter who had gone to a spa. She was sat in the women only section where all the women and children are undressed. And a man came and sat next to her daughter with his penis at her eye level and his legs spread. In the women's section 😡. The woman's distress was awful, I felt so bad that had happened to her and her child. 😢

YANBU.

Anyone who wishes to ignore the fact that women’s and girls’ boundaries have been eroded so much socially and legally that it is deemed acceptable for a male to sit naked in a jacuzzi with a naked 9 year old girl, should be prepared to apologise to those who want it brought to wider attention when it happens to them.

To repeat:
A male.
Naked.
Penis in full show.
In a jacuzzi.
With a child.

People think this is something that should be buried? Shameful.

@2021DNA

PurgatoryOfPotholes

Can you point out the post where I said I didn’t believe her? Because I can point you in the direction of the post where MN want a statement about it from the cast of Harry Potter.

Why the character assassination then? Do you do that to all who report incidents such as these? To people who report crime? Are only certain people who pass a purity test set by you worthy of reporting incidents or crimes? Have you made the world aware of this because we would hate to waste time and energy reporting stuff if we don't pass muster?

@NotBadConsidering

YANBU.

Anyone who wishes to ignore the fact that women’s and girls’ boundaries have been eroded so much socially and legally that it is deemed acceptable for a male to sit naked in a jacuzzi with a naked 9 year old girl, should be prepared to apologise to those who want it brought to wider attention when it happens to them.

To repeat:
A male.
Naked.
Penis in full show.
In a jacuzzi.
With a child.

People think this is something that should be buried? Shameful.

This.

Again and again.

I want children and women to be protected as much as possible. We've had to fight for this protections. I'm not interested in giving those rights away to away Tom, Dick or Harry

@2021DNA

PurgatoryOfPotholes

Can you point out the post where I said I didn’t believe her? Because I can point you in the direction of the post where MN want a statement about it from the cast of Harry Potter.

What part of this post showed your belief in what this woman said?

A woman with anti feminist and homophobic content all over her social media claimed that a man shows his penis to women and children in a Spa. Instead of calling the police she got her phone out and filmed herself shouting at the staff in the Spa and posted it online.

I certainly read it to mean you wished to discredit her voice, as others have done for the past few days. Just like at least two posters have stated they discredited the mother of the 6 year old when they heard her say

she said she went nude with her daughter to be "culturally with it" because that's what Koreans do.

I even questioned you on what kind of woman would you take notice of saying that it is not acceptable, since you felt this one is anti feminist and homophobic?

So do you believe her or not? Have I and others read your intention here incorrectly?

Then a particular board on MN got upset that Emma Watson didn’t make a statement about it

From your wording of this, I can only infer that the FWR board women are also not the right kind of women to be believed on this topic.

The thread you are referring to is asking the very valid point of where the prominent female voice that have been hugely vocal about support of transwomen, are on this incident.

An incident that we were told never happens - well we are up to two at that very spa so far. An incident we were called hateful for even imagining.

The thread also discusses one prominent feminist who has stated that girls should be taught to be accepting of penises in their hot tubs (or indeed at eye level when the male sits across from them with their legs open) because they are trans bodies. That girls should be taught to overcome their discomfort and look away.

Do you agree that girls should simply accept that 2021DNA?

I'm on FWR and don't think I've ever posted anything about Emma Watson. I hope people that make these sweeping generalisations are capable of distinguishing between different posters.

@CardinalLolzy

I'm on FWR and don't think I've ever posted anything about Emma Watson. I hope people that make these sweeping generalisations are capable of distinguishing between different posters.

No they aren’t

At all

Ever

CardinalLolzy

I haven’t either. There has been some excellent sweeping generalizations though hasn’t there? Almost like some people have an agenda.

What does Emma Watson have to do whether we can discuss exposed penises in front of little girls?

Is there an Emma Watson board and why would we discuss this there?

I still think this seems to be a good place. 2021DNA, why don’t you want it to be discussed here?

Can you point out the post where I said I didn’t believe her? Because I can point you in the direction of the post where MN want a statement about it from the cast of Harry Potter.

What on earth is this supposed to mean?

Why are you trying to undermine this woman's experience? Is it misogyny? Religious hatred? Or racism?

@2021DNA

PurgatoryOfPotholes

Can you point out the post where I said I didn’t believe her? Because I can point you in the direction of the post where MN want a statement about it from the cast of Harry Potter.

Is this the thread you are referring to DNA?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4288646-What-are-all-the-liberal-celebs-so-quiet-now-at-the-spa

The one with the third post down being

Could it be that there's no evidence that it actually happened?

That it has all of the signs of a false flag operation? A woman who has a long history of anti-LGBT rhetoric on her Instagram decided to go to a spa known for being an LGBT hotspot++... just randomly?

That she complained about children being exposed but no parents came forward to complain? That she didn't have a child with her?

That she filmed the entire encounter but conveniently cuts the video off before "confronting" the trans person?

So, another poster who has focused on an ad hominem attack of the woman who posted the video and not actually made any comment on the contents of the video?

Actually, it has also got the discussion about the tweets from Laurie Penny that have basically told the world that 9 year old girls need to simply 'not look' at a penis that is exposed in their vicinity in case it belongs to a trans person.

Do you agree with Laurie Penny on this issue then 2021DNA?
Do you think it is acceptable for a male to enter into a hot tub naked with naked 6 or 9 year olds in the female only section of a spa that is known to be family friendly?

(++forget yeahbutnaw's mistaken attempt to paint it as a LGBT hotspot, because it is well known for families to go there, including taking their grandmas with them.)

I'm fed up with the widespread transphobia that pervades MN, and regard the view some have of trans people being inherently harmful to women as being claptrap.

I'm fed up too - of people who call it 'transphobia' to not want males with them in female-only spaces. It's not 'claptrap' to say that women were harmed here. Women had not agreed to having naked adult male genitals in their spa with them and their children, and they left because of it. The women missed out. Are you suggesting this was unreasonable of them?

But because of people who hold views like the one above - "move over women, a man is here and he wants in on your naked places and I agree with him so shut up" - this craziness will continue. And it IS crazy. We KNOW men, even ones who "feel like women", do NOT belong in places where women and their children take their clothes off expecting a female-only environment. Everyone knows this really .

Can someone please explain why it is transphobic to object to an exposed penis next to a little girl?

I watched the video and I would not have taken my daughter into that spa if we had been in the queue.

I am very supportive of transwomen so this whole thing is really weird. How do we know that it is a transwoman and not a pervert?

Is this a TAAT or is it about the wider issue of trans threads on MN? Some posters are talking about a deleted thread (one that I never saw, and I'm sure nor did many on this thread) and others are talking generally. Not really conducive to a discussion.

I am not sure what’s going on HeyDemon . Nobody is really replying to me (well, one posted a helpful video).

It seems to have been an exposed penis next to a little girl. I wouldn’t be happy with that and said so - but then someone told me that I was an idiot for thinking this even needed to be stated.

And now people seem to say this can’t be discussed on AIBU because it is transphobic. I don’t even know if this person was trans.

I think is should be discussed here, this concerns children.

The thread was moved not deleted

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4288905-AIBU-to-think-naked-males-shouldn-t-be-in-the-women-only-section-of-a-spa

I think that the discussion is about whether or not it should have been moved and addressing the comments that discussion about whether of not issues that affect women and children's safety, and generally impact on their rights should be discussed in AIBU or not.

And now people seem to say this can’t be discussed on AIBU because it is transphobic.

I don't know, I think people are talking at cross-purposes. I disagree with the OP's proposal because I want trans threads to stay in the designated board, but I'm talking generally. Others seem to be talking specifically about a single thread where I have no idea if the man was trans or not, so they would read my post (and others) as saying that it's transphobic to not want a man flashing a small girl...

Cross-posted with Helleofabore. Okay, so this is a TAAT. I'll duck out.

@Helleofabore

The thread was moved not deleted

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4288905-AIBU-to-think-naked-males-shouldn-t-be-in-the-women-only-section-of-a-spa

I think that the discussion is about whether or not it should have been moved and addressing the comments that discussion about whether of not issues that affect women and children's safety, and generally impact on their rights should be discussed in AIBU or not.

This is a TAAT but disguised as being a general discussion, so there are two conversations going on. I didn't think TAATs were allowed?

"I am very supportive of transwomen so this whole thing is really weird. How do we know that it is a transwoman and not a pervert?"

This is the question nobody is allowed to ask. Especially if we ask anywhere on MN except the specially segregated board that used to be included in feminism and womens rights, but not any more because lots of people want it to be hidden.

I'm fed up with the widespread transphobia that pervades MN, and regard the view some have of trans people being inherently harmful to women as being claptrap.

I don't understand what this means. Why is objecting to a naked adult male with his legs spread and cock and balls hanging out on display, right next to a six year old girl transphobic? I really don't understand? Do you think that's ok to have a strangers cock and balls right next to your little girl's face?

This is a TAAT but disguised as being a general discussion, so there are two conversations going on. I didn't think TAATs were allowed?

TAATs aren’t allowed to prevent arguments and grudges being pursued across multiple threads.

This is about moderation policy so it’s not a true TAAT at all, but if you think it is, report it instead of TAAT hunting on the thread.

Others seem to be talking specifically about a single thread where I have no idea if the man was trans or not, so they would read my post (and others) as saying that it's transphobic to not want a man flashing a small girl.

I don't think it's relevant whether the person is trans or not though is it. I have no idea about their gender identity. It's about a male, with their exposed cock, right next to a child's face.