AIBU to ask Mumsnet to reconsider a decision

[Mummyoflittledragon]

… to relegate certain threads from the AIBU board.

I imagine AIBU is probably the most active board on Mumsnet and therefore reaches the highest audience. Now when someone creates a thread about children’s boundaries being crossed by certain people and women being scared into silence and being attacked by certain groups, the thread quickly disappears out of AIBU and onto another board.

Once off AIBU, the thread receives far less exposure thus radically reduces the possibility to offer information to the widest possible audience. Information, which could be used to help people and particularly women make safety and / or safeguarding decisions about themselves and their children.

Mumsnet to me is like the BBC (in its hey day) of parenting sites. And as Mumsnet is renowned for being such an esteemed hub for information, AIBU to ask Mumsnet to not give in to outside pressure from certain groups and to stop relegating important informational threads without looking at the wider implications.

This is about moderation policy so it’s not a true TAAT at all

Yes i agree

This is a TAAT

No. It is a thread about whether threads should be moved or not and if they are to be moved, on what basis.

You are absolutely right in that it seems that no one will really know whether that person was a trans person or not. That is the point really. Right there. Does it matter? And how does safeguarding get applied in this incidence?

The question is: why can't this incident be discussed on AIBU considering all we know (without making assumptions) is that it was a male who sat with their genitals visible at eye level to a 9 year old girl. And that a similar incident occurred and was reported to the spa in January 2020 involving a six year old girl.

Should this or should it not be discussed on AIBU?

That is it. That is all that should be asked. Etorih

Do you think that's ok to have a strangers cock and balls right next to your little girl's face?

And if you do think this is ok, why?

@Helleofabore

That is it. That is all that should be asked. Etorih

Do you think that's ok to have a strangers cock and balls right next to your little girl's face?

And if you do think this is ok, why?

Thirded.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

Cross-posted with Helleofabore. Okay, so this is a TAAT. I'll duck out.

Ah well you must know so much better than MNHQ then as they’re allowing it to stand in AIBU.

Anyway back to the actual question on the thread?

I’m not going to comment on the recent comments btw as I really want this thread to be a poll.

No. It is a thread about whether threads should be moved or not and if they are to be moved, on what basis

If it was really about that, it'd have been posted on Site Stuff where mods answer questions.

Ooo. I just realised the acronym for “Thread about moderation policy” is TAMP. I like that.

This is a TAMP.

I guess I would class this thread as a MN policy discussion on whether the question Do you think that's ok to have a strangers cock and balls right next to your little girl's face? is permitted to be asked on various sections of the board. And the answer seems to be "Yes of course this question can be asked on various sections of the board, unless it is called a special cock and balls, in which case the question is not allowed to be asked except on a special board."

In which case, we'll have to have a MN policy discussion on how we distinguish an ordinary cock and balls from a special cock and balls.

Any other reason you want to police this thread Quaggars?

I am glad that we agree though on that it is not because of transphobia as we know that anything transphobic is deleted, and if it is not deleted it is because it was not reported. So, it cannot be that.

Why would a safeguarding issue such as the thread that was moved was about not be allowed to be discussed here on AIBU?

YANBU. A perfectly valid post was moved, and the message we get is that women are not allowed to mention that we do not generally want our own boundaries to be crossed. Experience tells most of us that naked males around children present safety issues and this is of vital concern to all women , whether they see it or not. I still remember seeing a mans dick poking out of his swimming trunks at a pool when I was 9. It seemed to be there deliberately. I have in my adult life chosen to go on a beach where nudity is accepted. My experience has always been ruined by voyeurs (male) paedophiles watching children, (male) and having to see erect penises walking around (male) I have never seen any such behaviour from women . I no longer go. Would a thread about that be allowed in AIBU. IT IS ABOUT MALES /MEN and their behaviour. Should not have been moved.

@Quaggars

No. It is a thread about whether threads should be moved or not and if they are to be moved, on what basis

If it was really about that, it'd have been posted on Site Stuff where mods answer questions.

Why, when OP has an AIBU?

Her AIBU is "AIBU to ask Mumsnet to not give in to outside pressure from certain groups and to stop relegating important informational threads without looking at the wider implications." It's in her OP.

I always wonder if those who request that things are not discussed or are hidden away/moved are also the same people who post under articles asking are all the ?

Erm.banished to the naughty corner amongst accusations of God knows what that's where. No one wanted to listen.

Experience tells most of us that naked males around children present safety issues and this is of vital concern to all women , whether they see it or not.

Yes.

There are posters though who felt that the actions of the woman filming her reporting of the issue was far more egregious than the fact that a naked male with a penis got into the hot tub with a 9 year old girl already in that tub and subsequently had their penis at eye level less than a metre from that 9 year old girl.

yes.... the woman filming in the reception area where people had no expectation of being able to be naked was worse.

That is why this topic needs to be discuss in AIBU because it allows people to actually see what people will say to discredit the voices saying this is not ok.

You are not being unreasonable. The title of the board is "Mumsnet". So people are probably drawn here if they have an interest in topics of general interest to mums.

I have been criticised before for pointing that out. But I think that is disingenuous. The name is in the title.

Mums are interested broadly in child safeguarding. There is a lot of cultural challenge to that these days. There are many mums who are not yet aware that there is a massive movement to try to allow males into female changing rooms and other spaces and to get this written into law. Moreover the movement is trying to subvert current law by claiming that the law has already changed. It hasn't, but many people/organisations don't have the bandwidth to investigate this.

The trans title is a red herring. There are lots of ways of safely and inclusively accommodating trans people in our culture and society that the majority of people (trans and non) would find acceptable.

So having a thread like this to raise awareness in a place most visible to mums, is highly reasonable. This is an issue that relates to parenting girls.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

And now people seem to say this can’t be discussed on AIBU because it is transphobic.

I don't know, I think people are talking at cross-purposes. I disagree with the OP's proposal because I want trans threads to stay in the designated board, but I'm talking generally. Others seem to be talking specifically about a single thread where I have no idea if the man was trans or not, so they would read my post (and others) as saying that it's transphobic to not want a man flashing a small girl...

So you want trans threads to stay in the designated board. If that happens, how are people supposed to be made aware that males climbing naked into jacuzzis with naked children they don’t know is being normalised? Don’t you agree that needs wider attention, and if not, what would motivate you to keep that to a designated board where fewer people can know about it? What would motivate anyone to want that?

I doubt anyone who uses mn has managed to miss the anti-trans threads. I doubt there is any issue "getting the message out".

I still disagree and am supportive of trans rights.

At times using mn is like wading through trans-phobia, trying to find a reasonable thread to post on.

No one on the christmas boards complains that we can't post about Christmas all year on aibu. It is similar - a topic of huge interest to a smaller group, so given its own space so it doesn't clutter things up for those who aren't interested.

Its not anti trans to say that women's prisons should be for women, and that convicted male sex offenders should not be able to identify as women and be placed in a women's prison.

I am sick to my back teeth of the swarm trying to take over every board and draw everyone into debating the one (boring and often offensive) fringe topic.

I don't come to AIBU for that. If I wanted that, there is a dedicated board for it now. Fill your boots there.

How on earth they don't see the hypocrisy of having made their whole focus being about respecting and upholding 'correct' labels and spaces- while consistently intruding on spaces that don't want their discourse- is beyond me.

YANBU A thread about child safeguarding issue is relevant to all mothers and is best placed on the AIBU board. Such an important issue should not be hidden away and deserves widespread discussion. I would like to see the results of the poll, not only from those on the Feminism board but from the wider MN parenting community.

I am a retired Mental Health professional and was trained to be extremely suspicious of anyone or any institution or organisation that tried to minimise or hide away safeguarding concerns.

This is NOT an anti-trans thread. I think you need to evidence the transphobia before you make that accusation.

This is a thread about raising awareness of child safeguarding.

Stompythedinosaur

So do you believe that it is not a general safeguarding issue to have a naked male with a penis get into the hot tub with a six year old girl, including sitting on the edge of the spa with their legs apart so that the penis is at eye level to a girl less than a metre away?

That is what the thread was really about.

Do you find it acceptable? Or not?

I am glad that we agree though on that it is not because of transphobia as we know that anything transphobic is deleted, and if it is not deleted it is because it was not reported

Just to be clear, I actually said most of the stuff gets deleted, not always though, as in a lot is left to stand.
I never said anything about not being deleted because it was not reported.
My actual words - Mostly, yes, but not all of it in response to And yet, any transphobia is reported and deleted.

I am sick to my back teeth of the swarm trying to take over every board and draw everyone into debating the one (boring and often offensive) fringe topic

Do you believe that it is not a general safeguarding issue to have a naked male with a penis get into the hot tub with a six year old girl, including sitting on the edge of the spa with their legs apart so that the penis is at eye level to a girl less than a metre away?

That is what the thread was really about.

Do you find it acceptable? Or not?

Wht is it we have one set of people moaning about where a thread is located.

And another set blaming children for being in a child friendly space with their mother amongst other women.

But no one is prepared to discuss the actual issue which is that a policy allows naked males to be placed amongst naked women and girls without their consent and the safguarding nightmare that presents.

Who cares what section of the board its on. Who cares if the person was trabs or not no one knows.

Safeguarding is relevant to eveeyone

@Landlockedgirl

YANBU A thread about child safeguarding issue is relevant to all mothers and is best placed on the AIBU board. Such an important issue should not be hidden away and deserves widespread discussion. I would like to see the results of the poll, not only from those on the Feminism board but from the wider MN parenting community.

I am a retired Mental Health professional and was trained to be extremely suspicious of anyone or any institution or organisation that tried to minimise or hide away safeguarding concerns.

Hear hear - me too

That is what this discussion is about. Anything else is derailing.

There is a LOT of derailing being attempted here.