To think that males should not be competing against biological females in sports

[Campervan69]

Another sporting body, this time Australian cricket, now allow anyone born male to self identify as a woman and compete in women's sports.

At the same time new "inclusion rules" say it's a breach for women to refuse to compete with trans athletes, use the wrong pronoun for them or say they're uncomfortable sharing the changing rooms with them.

AIBU to think that this is the beginning of the end for women's sports if allowed to continue?

And how can women fight against this if they are not allowed to speak out?

As someone who believes in respectful debate about important issues, recently I've decided it's ok to be really, really angry.

It's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

And you know suffers as well as women and girls? The vast majority of the trans community who are sick and fucking tired of a vocal, vitriolic minority claiming to represent them.

I feel so bad for the huge swathes of trans men and trans women who, they go through a lot already and activists are making their lives ten times harder by claiming their voice. They are now disenfranchised by both trans activists who they don't agree with as well as women like us who they do agree with but aren't given a platform to agree with - it's assumed they agree with the violent rhetoric of trans activists. As one of them said to me just last week "not in my name".

Virtue signalling over simple common sense is NOT morally superior. It's disingenuous and does not reflect the reality of everyday life.

I am so, so angry and I hate how angry I am. It's getting harder and harder to have a reasonable debate about this.

I am hopping mad as well.

And the smarmy idiots who are encouraging all this madness then sitting back and smirking at women's anger

We all just need to keep on protesting I guess

I feel so sorry for female athletes ATM

@ThatCurlyGirl Absolutely feel the same way, alot of people do, we need to keep speaking up

Agree with the general consensus here. I play a lot of netball, to a competitive standard and am just waiting for the time when I will come up against a trans woman in a ‘ladies’ league. I am not looking forward to it. I have played mixed netball before and it is a completely different game, one that you are coached and prepared for, as in mixed you can’t have more than 3/7 males and they can’t play in the same third. The skill set is totally different and the game play much more physical. I choose not to play mixed these days for those very reasons but soon, I feel, wont have a choice. I don’t believe lowering testosterone will make any difference and wouldn’t be tested anyway unless elite - where does that leave us middle-standard players?? (Biological) women’s sport is being eroded.

YANBU and yes it is an absolute fucking disgrace.

I am slightly heartened by the replies on twitter from their announcement, they are getting a lot of backlash.

I will normally just say DC on here but you know what fuck it. It's a DD I have and I fucking despair at the state of it and what life is going to be like for her in the future.

It's always women and girls who are trampled over, women and girls who have to give up, compromise, make room, play nice.

Live your life be who you are by all means. But gaining rights for yourself by taking others rights away is wrong. It will always be wrong. There are transwomen and transmen who agree. But TRAs can't be bothered fighting battles, gaining rights the way women had to over the years. No, they'd rather snatch ours, trample us into the ground and ride off into the fucking sunset.

And you see the male allies practically wetting themselves with glee. Women being where they belong, subservient to men, barefoot and pregnant back in the kitchen. They can be full blown misogynists with no shame and no comeback because they're so progressive and woke!

Very much in a similar vein to what we are seeing now with trump and how his speeches are 'allowing' a section of society to unleash their own hatred and racism and as we see, to horrible fatal effect

I'm going to climb down off the soapbox now! I rarely stick my head above the parapet but I will be more often cause fucked if my daughter is growing up in some warped version of Gilead.

@MummBraTheEverLeakin Spot on, well said

I only have boys but I am going to stand up and protest on behalf of all of your daughters.

It is so upsetting.

Girl Guides is a lost cause also; girls can't even have that to themselves, they now take transgirls as girls plus transwomen as helpers without letting the girls or the parents know, imagine a 14 year old male bodied child in a tent with a 10 year old girl! fucking woke madness

It’s disgusting.

Are you a cricketer?

Do you take part in this sport, does this directly affect you as a sports person?

If you are, then of course, speak to the sports governing body and make your thoughts known.

If you are not - surely its actually a matter for those who take part in that sport, and that sports governing body - not you.

Why is it on Mumsnet, only male to female transpeople seem to exist. I rarely ever see anything about female to male.

Do you take part in this sport, does this directly affect you as a sports person?

The creeping and insidious erosion of female sport affects every woman who participates.

I rarely ever see anything about female to male

On a thread surrounding sport do you consider it to be a comparable issue?

I haven't been subject to FGM Widdlin; should I not care about that either?

@WiddlinDiddlin I am not a Cricketer but I am a woman who enjoys womens sports and I am watching the beginning of the erosion of womens sports, but I'm not allowed an opinion because I don't play? What?

Also, regarding your last point the only reason it seems one sided on the topic (Mtf rather than FtM ) is because mens rights are no where as threatened as womens on this subject. Biological women entering mens sports gives nothing but a disadvantage

It’s outrageous. I don’t agree with everyone on the FWR boards and am willing to compromise on things such as toilets, but this is just indefensible.

It also gives the lie to the suggestion that the trans movement just wants transgender people to live in peace and has no intention of doing anything to undermine women’s rights. People supporting this couldn’t give a shit what impact certain trans rights have on women.

Many retired sportswomen are speaking out against this:

twitter.com/TracyEdwardsMBE/status/1159438202308038656?s=19

"So women fight for years to be able to compete in sport because men didn't want us to. Now we have our own leagues, men want to compete against us? Seriously who saw this coming??? There MUST be a cohesive scientific debate BEFORE these decisions are made."

YANBU not in the slightest. Its just a way of eroding womens' rights.

Be trans as much as you want to be, but I fail to see why its so important to associate with the "right" to compete in elite level sport against women. The vast majority of humans will never compete in elite level sport no matter how much they want to, changing gender should not come with a bonus of becoming an elite level athlete. Caster Semenya, who is XY (we know that because the new IAAF rules only apply to XY individuals and she has admitted she will be ruled out of womens' competition by them) is only at the level of a moderately successful male runner. In no way elite. Loads of men can do the times she has taken 3 Olympic medals away from XX women. And those women should be compensated and given medals retrospectively.

Its also appalling that women aren't being allowed to discuss this or complain about it. Women athletes are generally prevented from being political by their sponsor's contracts, or in the UK, by their lottery funding, which is subject to a strict contract from British Athletics which means all media submissions have to be okayed by British Athletics first. On social media its almost impossible to discuss the issue - posts either aren't printed (while lots of abusive posts about women are) or abusive replies are heaped on in response.

Caitlyn Jenner was formerly the Olympic decathlon champion Bruce Jenner. It potentially allows male Olympians to prolong their careers well into their dotage by identifying as females.

WiddlinDiddlin Why is it on Mumsnet, only male to female transpeople seem to exist. I rarely ever see anything about female to male.

I post far more on sports related sites than mumsnet, and I have only come across one example of a female - male sportsperson. The big issues in transgender sport are all currently male - female.

I suspect the reason for that is that its almost impossible for female - male trans people to compete at elite level in their new category. Or even for formerly moderately successful individuals to convert that success into the same moderately successful levels in the mens' division.

Why don’t mumsneter discuss female to male transistioner? Because many women see them as women. They don’t see them as a threat becuase they are not men. They are happy to share spaces with them.
Men on the other hand seem to not want to share spaces with transmen or transwomen. Why don’t transwomen fell welcome competing with their own sex?

FEEL

This issue is simple.

Sports should be sex-segregated. If you have the Y chromosome, then you play against males. Full stop. No exceptions.

Your gender (i.e. fashion sense) is as irrelevant as your music choice/ favourite food, and so forth.

If you have the Y chromosome, then you play against males.

I would say that XY persons who are completely androgen insensitive are, for all intents and purposes, female, and could compete as women. But other than that, yes, I agree. And it's simple enough to make the criteria very clear which is better for everyone IMO, including the male athletes.

It is so simple. XX female sports and an open category which of course would be dominated by XY males.

I absolutely agree with you, OP. I don't think this will end at sport, either, and we will have no say in seeing our rights slowly eroded.

Obviously it is 150 percent fair because there is nothing more inspiring than validating a six foot five, two hundred and fifty pound muscle bound lady's womanhood by watching her win a sprint against some five foot four loser with a uterus.

Nothing more inspiring for girls to see either
Or for girls to be put of sport