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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that males should not be competing against biological females in sports

143 replies

Campervan69 · 08/08/2019 09:33

Another sporting body, this time Australian cricket, now allow anyone born male to self identify as a woman and compete in women's sports.

At the same time new "inclusion rules" say it's a breach for women to refuse to compete with trans athletes, use the wrong pronoun for them or say they're uncomfortable sharing the changing rooms with them.

AIBU to think that this is the beginning of the end for women's sports if allowed to continue?

And how can women fight against this if they are not allowed to speak out?

OP posts:
Fraggling · 08/08/2019 10:45

'ively damage the sport but sex separation is not as clear-cut in cricket as it is in, say, weightlifting, '

It's exactly the same!

Dicky people over there, cunty people over there. Easy peasy.

If you mean there's an argument it should all be mixed, feel free to make it. This is about 1category of males being allowed to join womens sports, complerely different.

How do they feel about mixed cricket in eg Pakistan?

Fraggling · 08/08/2019 10:47

A weakened man =/= a woman.

This is misogyny.

Fillipe · 08/08/2019 10:48

YANBU. It's downright cheating and everyone knows it but unfortunately many are sucking up going along with it.

BinkySodPlop · 08/08/2019 10:49

But the person they were talking to had no interest in competing in either male or female competition. They wanted to transition from male to female and keep up their running.... The reduction of physical prowess as a result of reduced testosterone is an observable one, which is why the IoC (and others) have set limits. Personally, I think that if you wish to compete in women's sport, there should be 1 limit, not 1 for xx women and 1 for everyone else, but apparently that's not fair to everyone who isn't an xx woman.

Siameasy · 08/08/2019 10:49

Yanbu
Are there any sports where males are disadvantaged? I’m thinking gymnastics, wondering when a male will ask to compete on the balance beam (ouch)
It is cheating. If you can think you’re the opposite sex then you can think you’re a different age and I can compete against 8 year olds in the 100m, ok?
Actually re age, everyone adult was once 8 so can actually identify with being 8 (which is enough to participate, yes?) but no male was ever or will ever actually be female.

practicalmagick · 08/08/2019 10:50

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

Completely understand - it's important to me too and I probably wasn't clear enough that we're in agreement here.

The facts speak for themselves in the end but to win this argument we have to know as much as possible about the current situation in different sports and the specifics of how it will affect things - we can't be at risk of the argument just being dismissed as "meanie feminists don't want to play sport with trans people".

There are of course legitimate concerns but imo cricket is a more subtle and complicated sport than weightlifting (I am biased but it's why I love it so much) so some of the problems are probably more subtle too and we may not have thought of them. So I really hope female cricketers will speak out on this.

practicalmagick · 08/08/2019 10:53

@Fraggling

Dicky people over there, cunty people over there.

I admire your turn of phrase but my point is that in cricket at the moment that's not always the case and some women play in men's leagues. I never said I thought it should all be mixed - I agree with the OP that men's sports being open to women, and women's sports being women-only, makes sense.

MIdgebabe · 08/08/2019 10:56

Having ( very rare) played mixed cricket, cricket relies on...bowling power /speed, hitting power/strength especially grip/wrist and the sprint between the sticks and sprints to catch the ball. all things where men will have a significant physical advantages.

Seem to recall the men switched to underarm bowling for the women batspeople.

Are the Australians on a losing streak in womens sports?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/08/2019 10:58

Ffs

Male entitlement is winning again

And us hysterical women (we know what the true meaning is this wood means) are being bigots Hmm

HotCheese · 08/08/2019 11:02

YANBU
Feels and bollocks have no place in women’s sport.

hereforasillygoosetime · 08/08/2019 11:02

YANBU

It's shocking and infuriating and unfair.

IMO this is an example of the 'loony left' taking things way too far and as a pp said we are building to an inevitable backlash which will culminate in politics.

CharlieParley · 08/08/2019 11:04

YANBU. Definitely.

I agree with people saying YANBU, but if we want to win this argument about sport we have to get familiar with the facts about specific cases. Cricket is an interesting case because the waters have been muddied for a while. I completely agree that making women's cricket effectively mixed sex would massively damage the sport but sex separation is not as clear-cut in cricket as it is in, say, weightlifting,

So the facts are:

1.) Women who play in these type of sports on men's teams put only themselves at risk from injury. Men who play in these types of sports on women's teams put only the women at risk from injury.

2.) Such women compete against players who are physiologically superior to them. I won't list all the ways, but speed and strength are two obvious areas where women are disadvantaged. The difference between the sexes is so pronounced, that these women although elite level in their own sex are only good enough to compete in much lower level leagues in the opposite sex.

Such men compete against players who are physiologically inferior to them. The difference between the sexes is so pronounced that mediocre males can win against elite female athletes.

That's why we have been treated to the sight of an over 50-bloke (ie an age where no man would outperform 25-year-old male elite athletes) in an elite college volleyball team, boys who are slower than the slowest competitors in the boys' races nonetheless dominating the girls' races and so on.

No, cricket hasn't muddied the waters at all. Many sports could and/or have allowed women to play or compete against men. It's just incredibly rare that a woman comes remotely close enough to be competitive against top-or even low-level men.

For example, my friend's son is 15. Gangly legs and knobbly knees and shifted centre of gravity an' all he still runs faster than Laura Muir, the current world champion.

That's what you're looking at: dozens of elite women good enough for mid-level or elite male sports. Many hundreds of thousands of men good enough for elite level female sports. Millions good enough for mid-level female sports.

Not saying millions of males will enter female sports, but where there is money to be had (and there often is these days in elite sports), enough mediocre males will take advantage of these new rules that they will seriously damage female sports.

So, YANBU. These sports organisations who put male desires over and above fairness and the safety of women are being very unreasonable indeed.

Fillipe · 08/08/2019 11:05

Transwomen also want to have periods. I would love it if they could feel the pain of childbirth for... (let's think) about 48 hours every one or two years.

Voice0fReason · 08/08/2019 11:05

It is an utter disgrace and completely inexcusable.
Sporting bodies have caved to entitled men demanding that they need everything they want. Transwomen do not belong in women's sport no matter what their hormone levels are.

megletthesecond · 08/08/2019 11:08

Yanbu.

IwantedtobeEmmaPeel · 08/08/2019 11:09

It's the emperor's new clothes. It's mysogony, the attempt to obliterate female only spaces and the only chance for all third rate male (yes I said MALE) athletes to play or run against women and win. Except most sane people are not convinced - You cheated you dickwad.

NurseButtercup · 08/08/2019 11:10

YANBU

It's cheating.
It's wrong.
It's unfair.
It's unacceptable.
I'm angry about the slow erosion of exclusively women's spaces/sports etc.
I'm angry that we are being shouted down as being transphobic.

I'm going to seek out how to voice my opinion against all of this, starting with writing to my MP.

DpWm · 08/08/2019 11:13

Rubbish I'm afraid, men have a longer reach, and greater muscle density and length, stronger tendons and ligaments too, makes all the difference when bowling the ball

Not to mention larger hands and a vastly stronger grip, which obviously helps when batting. Longer legs, larger feet too, for running.
Basically every advantage you can think of in any physical area exists for men and transwomen.

Bezalelle · 08/08/2019 11:13

Wow, seems like we're pretty unanimous on here.

It makes me wonder why there are so many accusations of "transphobia" on all the Girl Guiding threads when similar occupation of female spaces by males is discussed, but among vulnerable children.

DpWm · 08/08/2019 11:14

^Testosterone levels are next to irrelevant when it comes to sporting advantages. It's rage inducing that it's the only factor considered. Rage inducing that the T levels for transwomen are ridiculously high compared to women. Wrong wrong all over.

AryaStarkWolf · 08/08/2019 11:16

Good bye womens Sports, good job MRAs

jamrollyolly · 08/08/2019 11:17

Yanbu

BiologyIsReal · 08/08/2019 11:19

There's a thread on this in FWR as well and I have posted there that I think it is no coincidence that this is happening as women's sports, including cricket are now getting a higher profile on TV e.g. Sky broadcasts all women's top cricket such as the Women's World Cup and, recently, the women's Ashes. I am pretty sure the same is now happening in Australia.

So just the time for these imposters to up their public profile.

Come on Charlotte Edwards. As a world known ex-England cricket captain, tell the public what you think. Also Usha Guha, former England player now with a high profile as a Sky commentator on men's cricket (she commentates on the men's Ashes for Sky) tell us what you think of women up against the bowling of Archer, Wood, Plunkett, Anderson, Broad etc.....

MrsSnippyPants · 08/08/2019 11:20

Here's a post that might give you ideas as to what you can do. Item 9 particularly concerns sport:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3653635-Top-ten-things-to-do-to-defend-womens-rights-from-the-comfort-of-your-sofa

BiologyIsReal · 08/08/2019 11:26

For anyone who doubts the potential for danger, remember Aussie cricketer Phil Hughes, in 2014 hit on the neck by a bouncer and died. It's a potentially dangerous sport for men too - how much more so for women with their lighter frames.

Madness.

It's like putting a featherweight boxer up against a heavyweight. You wouldn't. Testosterone levels are only one factor.

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