Topshop gender neutral changing rooms part 2

[BahHumbygge]

Part 1 here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3080957-To-alert-you-to-the-fact-that-Topshop-just-changed-its-policy-to-let-men-into-the-womens-changing-rooms

It become criminal if a criminal offence is committed.

As I was saying earlier, there is a lot of behaviour that men can exhibit that fucks with women, but is not quite criminal, just the right side of police matter. Like with weinstein, lots of what he did wasn't actually illegal.

So I was saying to DH, men can loiter, they can stare, they can stand too close, breathe down your neck. They can strike up conversation when it's clearly unwanted / inappropriate and not go away. They can suggest things. Things which are not quite right but not quite threats. And of course, we all know, that young girls are worse placed of all to know how to deal with this. Which is in part why they are so freuently targeted.

A lot of men get off on getting a reaction, of inciting fear, shame, disgust, discomfort.... You can do all of those things without touching yourself or someone else.

I find it so hard to understand why women who have grown in our society and support metoo and all of that, who know this stuff, have this massive blind spot as soon as the word trans comes in.

This person, he's not even a TW, sorry "they" are a gender neutral person and want to be able to pick where they do what and with who. Yeah that sounds like an excellent change to make across the board

And have probably also forgotten about teenage boys... Who will also be able to identify their way into the changing rooms where their class mates are trying on a dress

Mentioned this to DD today and she said exactly this....boys at school are already joking about going to Topshop. I am horrified that they are putting teens and young women in such a vulnerable situation. Shame on you Topshop for bowing to the strops of this attention seeker.

Backboiler - abuse?

First, a person doesn't need to be trans to go into the "gender neutral" facilities

Second, they don't need to wear or style themselves as anything other than male. You can't tell what someone's internal gender ID is by looking.

The person in this story, for instance, is not a transwoman. They are a non gendered person who wears what they feel like on the day. Maybe blue lipstick. Maybe not. They're that modern.

Well OBVIOUSLY it'll be tempting for teen boys daring each other and stuff.

And for older men who are pissed up and bored.

NAMALT obviously.

Just read it. Appalling. The Exorcist analogy was just disgusting. At the very least at least he seemed to get a backlash over it and even if his own fans were disgusted then they know it went too far. It just saddens me quite frankly. I didn't even realise the extent until reading threads like this. The entitlement knows no bounds. If you're a man that wants to have long manicured painted nails then you're a man that wants to have long manicured painted nails. If you're a man that wants to wear a dress then you're a man that wants to wear a dress. If you're a man born Steven who wants to be called Stephanie then you're a man that wants to be called Stephanie and that (IMO) is fine. Live and let live. but YOU ARE NOT A WOMAN AND YOU HAVE NOT CHANGED GENDER. I know trans people who live fully (AFAIK) like women and I refer as she, her, etc out of my own feeling of respect but I am not calling a man who wears dresses if he feels like that day he wants to wear a dress, a woman. Because they're not. I'm angry about this myself, can't imagine how you all feel. I'm coming off this thread now anyway, it's starting to piss me off (the situation, not any of your posts or arguments).

Yes it is piss-offing, not least the people who say all this stuff is hysterical pearl cluthching evilness. And double especially when it's women as they know fine well what men can be like and how often they are like that and how girls of secondary school age are premium targets.

Repeat Rape in undetected rapists, Lisak and Miller, 2002.

Sample size was 1882 men, four separate studies conducted between 1991 and 1998, subsampled to give some idea of the error bars, producing a percentage of between 4 and 9.8% of rapists in each of the subsamples, p value less than 0.05. Their statistical analysis looks pretty okay to me.

And I repeat - I'm not saying 4 to 9.8% of transwomen are rapists, I'm saying that once self ID goes through, any male bodied person can choose to self identify as trans and enter women's spaces, including the 4 to 9.8% who are rapists. My issue is not trans people, it is the crapness of the drafting of the proposed law which allows this ridiculous situation to arise. Because the whole point of self ID is that merely asserting "I feel like a woman/I am trans" is enough - there is no legal means of distinguishing the genuinely trans from those trying it on for ulterior motives.

FFS take your dress home and try it on, order online

Jesus H Christ Travis's mate is chilling

I made the mistake of looking at some of the news reports/ tweets on this and I can't help feeling anxious and quite angry.
Also, as an aside, I can't use "they"as a pronoun. It's jarring

We had the same thing a generation ago.

At that time senior politicians were falling over themselves to appease the Paedophile Information Exchange www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10659169/Harriet-Harman-admits-paedophile-group-joined-her-civil-liberties-group-in-the-1970s.html
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-26372280/paedophile-information-exchange-interview-from-1983

Just like Mermaids, PIE was funded by the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571632/Home-Office-gave-Paedophile-Information-Exchange-70-000-Group-allegedly-given-taxpayers-money-1977-1980.html

plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose

I've just written to my MP on this. Again. I wrote at the beginning of October (before all the #metoo stuff) and I heard nothing so I've written again. We have to stand up for ourselves or women will nothing more than the objects of gratification and validation for narcissistic men like Travis.

I am just going to point out again that men dont have to have bottom surgery to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate. That means they can keep their penis and be legally classed as a woman.
Trans women are protected by hate crime legislation, biological women are not.

Under changes to the Equality Act they dont have to make any changes at all, just announce they are considering changing sex to obtain full legal protection.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

''A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.''

Is Alok the person who said he was once a cute little girl?

Female changing rooms for true females and same goes for males !!!! I don't give a fuck if they have had a sex change they are still male !!

lotsoflittlemys

Is Alok the person who said he was once a cute little girl?

I haven’t actually read that. But it wouldn’t surprise me.

So this gender fluid individual claims he is not safe in the male changing rooms and his solution is all gender changing rooms, where men would be untitled to be... Congratulations you played yourself Travis

Yes, lotsof. He uses those words in the screengrab/link in BahHumbygge's post at 20:07:39.

The cute little girl was Stefonknee, the bloke who assaulted his family then lived as a six-year-old girl to get fucked up the arse.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stefonknee-wolschtt-transgender-father-leaves-family-in-toronto-to-start-new-life-as-a-six-year-old-a6769051.html

Trans age and trans gender.

Well that's creepy. Travis needs some new mates I think.

It’ll take about two days for some —teenage pervert— bright spark of a boy to try to use this new policy to get in there and have a perve.

It’s a terrible idea and if the law allows it the law needs changing.

Here's the authentic trans line on Stefonknee:

www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3zob63/cmv_stefonknee_wolscht_the_52yearold_man_who_left/cyoicuu/

Basically he is right, and his wife and seven children whom he assaulted (and they then got a restraining order against him) are evil bigoted transphobic terf scum (and they obviously had it coming, like all terfs do)

ITT: Helicopter parents and shameless transphobia rearing their ugly heads

Gah, I’ve just had my 15 year old screaming at me because I dared to question this online. Apparently for all my lefty, liberal leanings I’m now a raging transphobe dinosaur and she’s disgusted with me for segregation. Honestly, I’ve had so many conversations with my two about this and they refuse point blank to see the issue.
I don’t think I can handle mentioning it again.

Pisa, Alok/Darkmatter also describes himself as having been "a cute little girl." Seems to be a bit of a recurring theme here. (Warning - the passage screen grabbed in BahHumygge's post is very creepy indeed).