Topshop gender neutral changing rooms part 2

[BahHumbygge]

Part 1 here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3080957-To-alert-you-to-the-fact-that-Topshop-just-changed-its-policy-to-let-men-into-the-womens-changing-rooms

[TitaniasCloset]

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[OrderMeACurry]

I hope one day you will meet a trans person and hear their story and maybe think differently.

Why are you assuming that posters here don't know any trans people?

[Datun]

Clearly some people have their views that these are just men in dresses that shouldn’t be able to be in our space, you’re entitled to your opinion, I hope one day you will meet a trans person and hear their story and maybe think differently.

I do know a transwoman, and they absolutely don’t claim to be a biological woman. They know full well that they are biologically male and yes they are post-stop.

Just think for a minute what you are saying. You are saying something, that you know full well cannot be true. Men aren’t women. You are saying it be nice, I realise that.

I don’t think that men with gender dysphoria transition to take women’s rights.

I think that men with AGP do.

My question to you would be, out of a quite natural desire to be kind, why do you think that you should ignore the objections of women, over men? Why do you want to be kind to men, but not women?

[OrderMeACurry]

Yes there are bad people in the world, men and (shock horror) woman too.

If not all men are bad and there are also women that are equally as bad then there is really no need for trans people to be constantly trying to get into female spaces, is there?

[Datun]

woman11017

That’s a campaign I would definitely get behind.

[MidnightAura]

I am horrified at this story but sadly not surprised. If women don’t want men in their changing rooms (and I certainly don’t) we shouldn’t have to worry about fear of being being called a trans hater etc.

I fear for the future I really do.

[RosaTheOwl]

Thanks Bah

2018 replying to your point about how to ID, I'd think if there was any doubt, then a post op trans would need to carry a certificate.

bear in mind, we would not be in this situation in the first place if people like Travis didn't cause it. Of course transsexuals have been using changing rooms for years with no problem. What Travis and his ilk are doing is making it harder for transsexuals to just get on with their lives.

[OrderMeACurry]

Oh and @2018babyonboard, I'm a transwoman and I know fine well that I'm male and this will never change.

[noeffingidea]

you're entitled to your opinion well we're certainly entitled to decide where and under what circumstances we get undressed in. If you're ok with Topshop's new arrangements that's absolutely fine. Go right ahead and use them. No one's stopping you. Other women and girls aren't happy, and they're going to vote with their feet and find somewhere else that they feel more comfortable in. That's the way business works.

[sagamartha]

2018 replying to your point about how to ID, I'd think if there was any doubt, then a post op trans would need to carry a certificate

And you could still have someone who has not had surgery but can still have a GRC.

It's not necessary to have had surgery to get a GRC but I think you need a compelling reason not to have had surgery if they are going to issue one.

[Rebeccaslicker]

His twitter is interesting. No such thing as bad publicity eh travis?!

mobile.twitter.com/travisalabanza?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Datun]

Rebeccaslicker

He is feeling little hassled and got at? Welcome to womanhood.

[sagamartha]

I'm a transwoman and I know fine well that I'm male and this will never change

There are some transwomen who say that they don't feel comfortable in their male body and transition - often with HRT and surgery. As there are transmen.

The current law states that if they have a GRC, then they have become 'the opposite sex' for all purposes.

[Rebeccaslicker]

He's sooooo hassled and soooooo got at it because he's in a show performing right now, don't you know?

Nothing like a bit of publicity for that, right?!

[2018babyonboard]

Obviously I said ‘some posters’ I.e the ones who are being derogatory towards trans people and branding them as all sorts of things.

No ones rights are more important I have not once said that. The minute we start thinking about whose rights are more important than someone else’s is when we go to a time that slavery, animal abuse, child abuse etc are all acceptable.

I know how biology works but having never been in a position where I feel trapped in the wrong body, I don’t think it’s my right to say that it’s not true and they don’t feel that way. Most trans people accept that they are not biologically that sex but it is what they feel they are. What I do no, is they should be free of discrimination.

[Rebeccaslicker]

The problem here is that the needs of a tiny minority are being forced on us at the expense of women's rights and safe spaces. And that by a tiny minority of that tiny minority.

4 categories of toilets, showers, changing rooms, sports competitions is the only way forward that I can see. Nobody gets hassled; everyone competes on a level playing field.

[sagamartha]

Most trans people accept that they are not biologically that sex but it is what they feel they are

This depends on your definition of trans people. There are trans people who think they are the wrong gender because they like things that are commonly associated with the 'opposite' gender and there are trans people who have strong body issues and a feeling of being 'wrong'.

I think that the definition of trans people very much depends on who you talk to and how they define themselves. I am not sure if liking things that are not associated with your 'sex' makes you trans - in the way people normally think of a trans person.

[Pandapenguin]

@rebeccaslicker completely agree

[Scabbersley]

the ones who are being derogatory towards trans people and branding them as all sorts of things.

Who?where?

[Scabbersley]

So Travis is a successful actor with a book out

Maybe he should check his privilege before he starts to lay into retail staff.

[Datun]

What I do no, is they should be free of discrimination.

I completely agree. As does every feminist on the planet.

I want them to be free of violence, abuse, discrimination at work. I want them to have access to housing, jobs and any medication required.

Those are human rights.

What I don’t want them to have is women’s rights. Because they have been very hard won. If you can’t legally define the word woman, to all intents and purposes you can’t talk about the rights of women.

We are already seeing the words pregnant women being replaced with pregnant people. Breastfeeding with chest feeding.

We are already seeing scholarships for women being given to men. Sports for women being won by men. The first ‘women’ to direct a trilogy are men. The first woman on the front line is a man. The first woman in the top Fortune 500 is a man. Woman of the year was a man.

And you seem to be ignoring inherent power dynamic between men and women here.

What are transmen famous for? People born female who identify as male. Guess.

Giving birth. That’s what transmen are famous for.

Because you can’t identify out of your biology. And you can’t identify out of the inherent power dynamic between men and women.

So all these women who have achieved everything are actually men.

And the ‘men’s’ achievement?

Giving birth.

[Pandapenguin]

Travis's instagram also interesting - evidently, incase we forget: he is the victim. AND is very upset and this is getting in the way of HIS art.

His instagram story today is of him having his make up done filming himself close up doing things with his tongue at the camera. Such stress.

[noeffingidea]

*Noone's rights are more important' . Sorry but I disagree in this situation. Womens rights are more important in the context of a woman's changing room. Just as they are in a woman's refuge, prison, hospital ward sporting event, etc etc.

[Rebeccaslicker]

All I read on that clip from travis was: meeeeeee. Meeeeeeeeeeee. MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

[Rebeccaslicker]

Hey look, a clip of travis' show 😂😂😂😂😂

m.youtube.com/watch?v=E0g4GAN54og