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Topshop gender neutral changing rooms part 2

452 replies

BahHumbygge · 09/11/2017 16:03

Part 1 here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3080957-To-alert-you-to-the-fact-that-Topshop-just-changed-its-policy-to-let-men-into-the-womens-changing-rooms

OP posts:
lotsoflittlemys · 09/11/2017 22:28

pisacake I just read that article, his poor family, bloody hell. He clearly has massive issues and needs help for them, not enabling.

niccyb · 09/11/2017 22:30

5 years ago, a man with a penis who wanted to dress as a woman was known as a transvestite. Now they are classed a gender neutral. What a load of bollocks!!
If they haven’t had it chopped off, they physically remain a man. fact!! Can’t have it both ways

pisacake · 09/11/2017 22:32

"ITT: Helicopter parents and shameless transphobia rearing their ugly heads"

Those damn parents wanting to stop their kids from being molested eh?

How fucking inconvenient for some people.

Paedophiles specifically target children who are given too much freedom by their parents.

RosaTheOwl · 09/11/2017 22:39

NaturalBlonde, what's your DC argument in favour of it?

VerticalBlinds · 09/11/2017 22:42

This is a point though. If / when anything happens, the question will be what was the child doing in there alone in the first place. Where were the parents? Or maybe, as Alok suggests, they were secretly looking for it.

NaturalBlondeYeahRight · 09/11/2017 22:46

rosa I think they see it as a cause similar to homosexuality and race. They have a few gender fluid pupils at school - they know them and are obviously not worried about them. They are supportive people and they feel like I am extremely over the top for even thinking this could ever be an issue. They don’t seem to grasp at all that this is not about these issues at all.
They cannot see the bigger picture no matter how much I explain. My eldest who is nearly 18 realises that we could have a sport/prison issue but in their nice world, are sure this could be tackled somehow. I’ve gone in circles with it

MommaBear1 · 09/11/2017 22:49

Not sure why it is so difficult to understand that gender neutral means that female, male and everything in between are allowed in the same area ( not just trans!!). Why have changing rooms at all?! If literally anyone is allowed to swan into any chosen area with no questions asked ( and only a flimsy curtain to 'protect' modesty)then you may as well get rid of changing areas and let people use the shop floor....😡

Also, one thing I have never found an answer to, is what about the rights of religious people whos ( protected religious) beliefs do not allow them to be in mixed sex private areas? Are their rights now completely null and void?! Orthodox jews, Muslims etc have very strict rules - are these now ignored in favour of another minority?

Datun · 09/11/2017 22:50

NaturalBlondeYeahRight

You’ve probably already done this, but have you mentioned that the trans-ideology insists no such thing as homosexuality?

Pandapenguin · 09/11/2017 22:51

Has anyone who read the ms stefaknee wolscht article watched the youtube clip in it? I don't understand how you wake up one day as a grown man with wife and kids and decide you want to be a 6 year old girl and you get a new mommy and daddy and live with them and have play therapy with their grandchildren. In a 'quasi family' church.

Is this a legal thing and was biding his time while on a list looking for a foster parent? Or is it a fucking cult?

My head hurts.

Pandapenguin · 09/11/2017 22:55

@naturalblond this is the problem. It's presented as a victim thing and children who want to be nice and who know racism and prejudice is wrong think this is in the same league. I would have thought the same if i had all these posters and propoganda in my face at school when i was a pupil.

Pandapenguin · 09/11/2017 22:56

@naturalblond i also feel very frustrated about it all😾

OlennasWimple · 09/11/2017 22:57

Prickly

Because the whole point of self ID is that merely asserting "I feel like a woman/I am trans" is enough

Or, as Travis put in one of his tweets to Topshop, "Who are you to decide who is woman enough to use the changing room?" Hmm Angry

lotsoflittlemys · 09/11/2017 23:02

It seems like the big difference between the trans cause and the progression of other minority groups is that no other oppressed groups (that I can think of) wanted to gain their rights at the expense of others. It has always been about equality. But this isn't.

If this gender identity bill becomes law does that mean that the legal definition of what a woman is will just be based on feelings or whims and not biology? Isn't sex a protected characteristic? It's all so confusing.

woman11017 · 09/11/2017 23:13

no other oppressed groups (that I can think of) wanted to gain their rights at the expense of others
White moneyed western men may have felt they've lost power as a result of race and gender and equality opportunities legislation. I suppose we're living through the backlash.

The #boycottTopshop on twitter seems to be gathering a lot of support. Smile

Scholes34 · 09/11/2017 23:15

Well, if you go to Gap, they don't have segregated changing rooms. I've been in there when men are trying on clothes too and I don't see a problem. Is there a problem? It's the same with H&M too.

Have I missed the point?

sagamartha · 09/11/2017 23:21

I am just going to point out again that men dont have to have bottom surgery to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate. That means they can keep their penis and be legally classed as a woman

There were 50 gender recognition certifcates in the first quarter of this year. Just 50. I wonder how many of those people didn't have surgery and were stil given a GRC. Such certificates are not handed out easily and a lot of evidence is needed to provide such a certificate.

sagamartha · 09/11/2017 23:24

Well, if you go to Gap, they don't have segregated changing rooms. I've been in there when men are trying on clothes too and I don't see a problem. Is there a problem? It's the same with H&M too

Nor does Tescos with their changing rooms. I think there are a lot of changing areas that are used by men and women in shops.

PickingOakum · 09/11/2017 23:25

The only way this train is going to stop is when people start threatening litigation.

Someone ought to contact Top Shop and say they are happy as a biological female to use their new all-gender changing rooms so long as they can sue Top Shop if they experience sexual harassment by a member of the opposite sex whilst in said changing rooms.

Again, I've no idea why parents that find themselves in a "trans" situation with their kids, whereby the trans identity is being supported by external agencies against the parent's wishes don't ask said agencies to sign an agreement that says they agree to be financially liable in the event of their advice or treatment causing future medical or psychological problems to the child.

Nothing focuses the mind more than money, I'm afraid.

It's time to start playing hardball.

MistressDeeCee · 09/11/2017 23:28

I will not shop at any store which ignores women's concerns in favour of the concerns of those socialised as men. This whole thing has male privilege stamped all over it, male attitude of do as we say it's not about you. & it stinks. I couldn't give a shiny shit what dickmatised women who can only align where a penis is in the mix, or any transgender who is focused on invading women's privacy, has to say about it. They can do as they like. I will do as I like.

Pretending to be a man so as to peep at young girls and women. That could never ever happen could itHmm

RosaTheOwl · 09/11/2017 23:29

Natural, thanks for answering that.

Something I wonder is, do people with those views think that women were wrong in wanting single sex wards in hospitals etc, and that women who pushed for those things were just being misandric? Also wonder if there's an element of just not wanting to believe in "me too" and the number of men who commit assault because it's too frightening to face up to it?

RosaTheOwl · 09/11/2017 23:32

Scholes, yes you have
I'm wondering if MN can do a sticky thread with one of the explanations of the GRA that posters have kindly given? But I must go to bed so I will ask them tomorrow. Any thoughts on which posts could be good to have for that?

Pandapenguin · 09/11/2017 23:36

@pickingoakum im with you. Agree completely.

lotsoflittlemys · 09/11/2017 23:42

Scholes34 Yes, spectacularly, sorry.
woman11017 I think you might be right unfortunately.

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 09/11/2017 23:44

""who wrote a long post about how little girls shouldn't be considered innocent and can be kinky and deviant just like everybody else, that was the gist."

That makes me rage.

I hit puberty relatively early. I've been 5'8 since at least second year of high school. I was hit on in a Brownie uniform by grown men, I was hit on by a Fighter Pilot dressed as Santa (he was in his twenties, I was 12), I was followed off the bus and asked out by strangers as a teenager. I was deliberately soaked at a party so that my clothes stuck to my body by adult men. My father's squadron called me "Jailbait". I've had family friends tell me they wanted to spank me. I've been groped, fondled and called frigid for pushing them away. I've been raped as a student and had my pain and my fear dismissed and belittled in childbirth. All of that happened for one reason and one reason only, because I am female.

Do I have kinks, yes I do and I did as a 12 year old but did I want to explore that with any of the men I've mentioned above, no. Nor would I want to share changing facilities, bathrooms or anything else with them or people like them regardless of how those people identify.

colouringinagain · 09/11/2017 23:53

Dinosaur Flowers

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