To alert you to the fact that Topshop just changed its policy to let men into the women's changing rooms

[YouStoleTheBowlFromTheRoom]

Been made aware of this today: a 'gender fluid' man having a pop at Topshop because he wasn't allowed to use the women's changing rooms at their Manchester store:

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927198660089339904

Topshop have now been quoted as apologising to him, and saying they've changed their policy to get rid of sex-segregated changing rooms altogether.

Another shop to strike off the list. Am I the only one worried this is past the point of no return?

This thread is unbelievable.

OK you might not like the individual in question but the transphobic comments on here are outrageous. And not cool to post and attack photos under your own perceptions of what gender is (which come across as uneducated and Daily Mailesque).

I am more fearful of the majority of mumsnetters on here than I am of males in female changing rooms.

Grow up and get a grip. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Good idea fossie. What men only clubs/groups/events might I be interested in benefitting from membership of? Does anyone know where I can start applying to?

Toothy, I think that can only be addressed by saying "owner of a functioning penis".

can we get that band to rewrite their song so it's "owner of a working dick"?

Joking apart, I used to think that was enough but the aggression is such that there will be men who have that removed but still want to be pervs and demand access for that reason.

I used to say "I'm not anti trans but I can understand accusations of being anti male". I'm beginning to think that if trans, as an umbrella term, includes Travis types, maybe i am teetering on anti trans?

This is the only one I've come across of ftm trans being unwelcome in male spaces. Possibly because it's rarer for ftm to want to access men's changing rooms and toilets.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3576566/Transgender-man-born-woman-banned-male-changing-room-gym-BREASTS.html

Beyond the central issue itself, all the blatant sexism surrounding the transactivist agenda, infuriates me.

Men are uncomfortable with a female-bodied person in their space? Their concerns are taken seriously and the individual is banned.

You're worried about male-bodied people in women's spaces? You are being 'hysterical women', 'transphobic' and you need to consider the needs of the male-bodied person (above your own). Never mind that women (logically, from their experience and from actual statistics) have a lot more reason to not want men in their private spaces.

I'm only aware of two situations where 'gender neutral' toilets have been removed. In one it was the males who were uncomfortable with a female-bodied person accessing their toilets. The other was where all the toilets in a new building were entirely enclosed units (floor-to-ceiling walls, completely self-contained with basin etc which I and many women would be absolutely fine with) and again the men didn't like it and they got re-designated as male and female. Lots of places have now 'solved' this by just making the women's 'gender neutral' and obviously ignoring what the hysterical women have to say on the matter.

Ditto the laws on male children inheriting titles etc - That must be excluded from any 'trans rights' legislation because women would lie to get an advantage and men's inheritance must be protected.

Whereas, male-bodied people should be allowed in women's prisons, refuges, changing rooms, rape crisis centres etc because men would never lie to get what they want (you hysterical, man-hating woman) and your rights don't matter.

Ditto again transactivists and their frothing, violent hatred of feminists, 'terfs', 'cis-scum' and any other name they can think of for women. Despite the fact that the people attacking transwomen are men.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Me? I should be ashamed of myself?

Battered, I think the first on the list is Freemasons?

And I think it’s quite evident from this thread, that despite understanding that violence and sexual violence is overwhelmingly sex specific, it’s not
always about feelings of insecurity.

For some women, yes of course it will be. But for many women, like me, I don’t feel insecure because of this man, I feel fucking furious.

He’s a narcissistic bully, who hangs out with someone who has made extraordinary paedophile comments about children.

He dresses as a 15-year-old girl and takes pouty selfies in the mirror. He tweets that you can suck his dick, he tells females to call him when their ‘boobs come in’.

And now he has bullied a shop for teenagers into allowing him, and anyone else, to violate the boundaries of youngsters.

In any other time, this man would have been called a dangerous perv. But no, he’s getting one of the most popular teenage shops in the country to change their policies to accommodate him. With one complaint.

So no, I don’t feel insecure, I want to smack him one.

But, guess what? I can’t. Because no matter how I, or any woman feels, he is über privileged with an additional, extra special layer of trans-Teflon.

Evening all,
Thanks for your reports, as you can see we have made some deletions. Anyone who saw the posts before they went will have some insight into why OldPony's feelings are running so high, we have had a chat and she thinks it's best if she retires for the evening. We just thought we'd pass that on so that the conversation can continue to flow.

Thetoothyteeth

Actually, you can argue it. Incredibly effectively.

The only thing you need is for someone to listen...oh wait.

When you have an hour, listen to this. It’s the most intellectually effective rebuttal of the ideology that I have ever heard. It’s also quite funny.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=zr139IvTf2Q&feature=youtu.be

Datun

🙌 to everything you have just said.

Who is the mate he hangs around with?

www.socfem.net/2017/11/equality-act-2010 v interesting and informative

and not cool to post and attack photos under your own perceptions of what gender is (which come across as uneducated

Au contraire.

I think it's fine for anyone, man or woman, to wear what they please. I just don't want those choices to be used to reinforce harmful gender stereotypes that subjugate women.

A dress does not make you a woman. I don't wear dresses, or make-up, or shave my legs, or follow celebrity gossip etc. Does that mean I'm less of a woman than someone who does?

Most transgender men keep their male genitalia intact and a large number of them are straight. These are the things that never get mentioned in the mainstream debate.
Why should they get to change with girls in a swimming pool or Top Shop?
That's even before we get into blokes just using this to abuse the system.

@Datun I hadn’t realised that was Alok in the picture with Travis. Horrible.

Fern - do you mean most transgender women keep their original genitalia? And if they’re straight then they presumably fancy men and not women. If you mean trans women - why does it matter? I’m a lesbian and I go in women’s changing rooms all the time...

DayManChampionOfTheSun

Alok Vaid Menon

He described little girls as queer, kinky, deviant and not so ‘straight and narrow’ as you think they are.

He removed the post, but it was too late because it has been copied.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/reneejg.net/2016/10/03/darkmatter-should-not-be-welcome-in-wellington/amp/

dinosaursandtea

Sexual orientation is to do with your sex, not your gender.

Travis ran a teaching course for teachers at the Tate this summer - on trans issues / his issues

Nope! If you’re a woman - cis or trans - exclusively attracted to other women, then you’re a lesbian. Since all the major LGBT organisations accept this, maybe MN should give it a go.

@slim sometimes i think that is what they want, because it elevates victim status allowing them to enforce more rules they want in place with no debate aloud. @datun sorry that's what i meant, not allowed to be discussed and no one can be listened to or they are a terf.

I'm not an activist, I don't always think about feminist issues I'm not radical. But I'm genuinely concerned what things will be like for my daughter and my nieces when they are my age. Currently in bed drinking a gin because this thread his pissed me off so much. What can you do?! 🤷🏻‍♀️

Lesbians are women dinosaursandtea...

@prickly even if anyone wanted to say this, the legislation says otherwise. We're stuck - legally silenced ☠️

Transwomen aren't women dinosaursandtea, they're men.

And don't use the word cis. I am a woman. I am not a cis woman.

If you’re a woman - cis or trans

Correction: if you’re a woman or a transwoman.

Anyone who saw the posts before they went will have some insight into why OldPony's feelings are running so high

Hmm, bit victim blamey there HQ...