To alert you to the fact that Topshop just changed its policy to let men into the women's changing rooms

[YouStoleTheBowlFromTheRoom]

Been made aware of this today: a 'gender fluid' man having a pop at Topshop because he wasn't allowed to use the women's changing rooms at their Manchester store:

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927198660089339904

Topshop have now been quoted as apologising to him, and saying they've changed their policy to get rid of sex-segregated changing rooms altogether.

Another shop to strike off the list. Am I the only one worried this is past the point of no return?

Clearly none of you got the point I was making. No white people didn’t need safe spaces but at the time they thought that their needs trumped those of black peoples. As i said it was backward thinking.

Now people who are biologically woman think their needs are more important than those who have transitioned to woman. No trans woman is protesting their needs are more important than woman, they’re not saying that all biological woman shouldn’t be allowed to get changed there, they are asking that they go in the space they identify with.

All of this Talk about ‘whatever they decide to be on the day’ is also incredibly offensive, people go through years of hormone treatment, genital changes, plastic surgery etc are not jsut deciding they want to be a woman and clearly a lot of people don’t want to accept that it’s a real issue for them. Even pre-transition MOST people don’t go through all of that just to wipe your rights.

No one is eroding anyone’s rights. It’s not a woman’s right to get changed with no men within 5 feet.

If you want to protest an issue, protest for locks on the doors. Don’t protest that all trans people are ‘men in dresses’ and don’t deserve to get changed where they feel they belong because they clearly have fetishes and just want to look at your tits.

No trans woman is protesting their needs are more important than woman

Actually that’s exactly what has happened here, though I believe the person who made the complaint says they are trans feminine (whatever that means), rather than a transwoman.

They decided that their access to the women’s changing rooms was more important than the right of women to use single-sex facilities. They are clearly saying their needs are more important than the needs of women to use a single-sex changing room.

2018 "What about a female to male trans who has a penis? By your logic you don’t want anyone with a penis to be near you when you’re changing, but you think people should go in their biological changing rooms so where would they go? "

haven't you just answered your own question? I think most of us have been quite clear here - you have a penis, you go in the men's area. That IS your biological changing room.

2018 - btw why are the lifeguards looking at women's breasts?!

No white people didn’t need safe spaces but at the time they thought that their needs trumped those of black peoples.

The same way that men think their needs trump those of women. Do you not understand structural analysis?

All of this Talk about ‘whatever they decide to be on the day’ is also incredibly offensive, people go through years of hormone treatment, genital changes, plastic surgery etc are not jsut deciding they want to be a woman

I’m afraid you’re not only behind the times, but that statement is very transphobic as well.

85% of transwomen retain their male genitalia.

And one can be a transwoman with absolutely zero modifications to any part of their body or appearance. Hence Daniel Muscato. And it’s transphobic to suggest otherwise.

Also, the person the opening post did absolutely identify as different genders on different days. And it’s transphobic to suggest otherwise.

And lastly, the law that is being considered in parliament at the moment will mean self identification. Legally changing your sex will be an administrative process only which will take a couple of days. There will be absolutely no criteria, whatsoever, in order to become legally the opposite sex.

I suspect you haven’t read the thread.

the lifeguards at your local swimming pool get a better look at your tits than anyone could peeping through a curtain in a changing room

Fucking hell, the idiocy of some posters is mind numbing. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of the old sock puppetry going on here.

don’t deserve to get changed where they feel they belong

Where does this “feel they belong” stuff stop anyway. What about an adult who feels they belong in a space intended for children? A white person who feels they belong at one of the few colleges set up for Black students? A non-disabled person who feels they belong in a parking space intended for use by disabled people?

Read the thread, baby, or at least look at the twitter feed linked in the OP. Travis has not had any surgery, is "gender fluid", switches between "feeling like a woman" and "feeling like a man" as the mood takes him. We are not talking about transexuals who have gone to a great deal of effort to transition, who suffer from gender dysphoria. We are talking about the piss-takers like Travis, and the male sexual perverts who will piggy-back on this legislation to gain access to women's spaces. Because the proposed law is incredibly badly drafted.

I posed the question on a previous thread as to what additional rights genuinely trans people would get from this proposed change, and one of our regular trans posters (who I have a great deal of respect for, and insofar as one can do with someone online, like) said "well, none as far as I can see." Someone with a GRC can already legally go into the women's changing rooms. All the new law around self identification would do is widen that pool of people who can go into women's changing rooms without women having the right to challenge them to... absolutely everyone. All a man has to do is utter the magic words "I feel like a woman" and they can stay - even if they are bearded and "masculine presenting". The woman who makes a fuss about it on the other hand can be escorted off the premises for committing a hate crime.

All of this Talk about ‘whatever they decide to be on the day’ is also incredibly offensive, people go through years of hormone treatment, genital changes, plastic surgery etc are not jsut deciding they want to be a woman and clearly a lot of people don’t want to accept that it’s a real issue for them. Even pre-transition MOST people don’t go through all of that just to wipe your rights.

Except in this case it literally is 'whatever they decide to be on the day'

And the huge majority of trans people rarely have full surgery anyway. So your rants seem a little silly given you don't seem to even understand what you are arguing? Your views, from what I can make out, actually make you a 'TERF'.

Do you disagree with sex segregation in general?

Also, a huge majority of people would have no issue with post-op transsexual people using the areas of their chosen sex. Its generally those who are pre-op, or don't want any transition at all that are the issue.

babyonboard - you clearly haven't read the link or the thread - this guy Travis decides what sex he is each day - he is 'gender fluid' not a transwoman. I was not being offensive, I was being accurate.

the lifeguards at your local swimming pool get a better look at your tits than anyone could peeping through a curtain in a changing room

don’t deserve to get changed where they feel they belong because they clearly have fetishes and just want to look at your tits.

Ugh. Misogyny comes in all shapes and sizes.

BatShite "Also, a huge majority of people would have no issue with post-op transsexual people using the areas of their chosen sex"

THIS.

it's the transgender feelz thing that is problematic and as I said upthread, I'm pretty convinced some people don't understand what is happening (understandably!!!)

2018 - btw why are the lifeguards looking at women's breasts?!

Same reason trans people are obviously, clearly everyone that’s not born with a vagina is a sexual predator.

As for travis not being a trans woman, the issue is much wider than travis - clearly. What about the people who are actual trans woman, you’re completely dismissing them due to the fact that you believe trans people are men in dresses.

So a woman with a penis should go in the men’s because they have a penis but a man with a vagina should also go in the men’s because they were born with a vagina? Ok then.

How can they identify with having biology they don’t have?
Who the hell are any of us to say what goes on in someone’s head, what turmoil they’ve gone through to feel trapped in the wrong body. Men hid their homosexuality for years for fears people would react how they are now, they married woman to get over it and be ‘normal’ and ended up depressed, suicidal and living a lie. People couldn’t accept that they could want to be something that wasn’t biologically normal (I.e the traditional, you Marry a woman to reproduce) luckily we’ve (mostly) moved past that as a nation.

Obviously some of the Blatant transphobia here has got my back up but what I’m saying still stands.

‘The key to solving hate is educating not resisting’ - maybe some people should educate themselves on the hardship and emotions of others as opposed to declaring them all fetishists and sex offenders.

85% of transwomen retain their male genitalia

And the huge majority of trans people rarely have full surgery anyway

Depending on how you define transwomen. Your definition is not the definition many people would automaticaly think of as transwomen.

I wonder how many transwomen who have applied for a GRC under the 2004 Gender Recognition Act have not had surgery?

2018 "So a woman with a penis should go in the men’s because they have a penis but a man with a vagina should also go in the men’s because they were born with a vagina? Ok then."

huh? I don't have a problem with a fully operated on transsexual with a vagina going in the women's changing room.

As for the lifeguards - I mean, they are not hanging out in changing rooms, they are supervising the pool? (also confused why you are assuming that lifeguards are male, but anyway)

huh? I don't have a problem with a fully operated on transsexual with a vagina going in the women's changing room

How do you know if someone has had surgery?

huh? I don't have a problem with a fully operated on transsexual with a vagina going in the women's changing room

So are we going to get everyone to drop their pants for the shop assistant to verify for you?

So are we going to get everyone to drop their pants for the shop assistant to verify for you

The only way to tell if someone has had surgery is often to closely stare at their genitals whilst they are getting changed.

☠️😷🚫😤😡😡😡

‘The key to solving hate is educating not resisting’ - maybe some people should educate themselves on the hardship and emotions of others as opposed to declaring them all fetishists and sex offenders.

Maybe the education could start with Travis and co listening to the millions of women who have been harassed and assaulted by men and quite reasonably do not feel safe sharing changing rooms with adult males.

So a woman with a penis should go in the men’s because they have a penis but a man with a vagina should also go in the men’s because they were born with a vagina? Ok then.

Transmen are welcome in female spaces because they are women. Hardly any of them have genital surgery because it is still in its infancy. But even if they did, I would accept them in female spaces, because, you know, they are women.

Unlike other posters, I would not except a post-op
transwomen in my space.

Although, I agree that they are not generally AGP, the fact is there’s no way to make a distinction.

I understand the inclusive argument, though. Because transsexuals, in the past, were accepted.

And, there are relatively few of them so in terms of practicality, it’s probably not much of a problem.

started part 2 here as this one's nearly filled up

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3082659-Topshop-gender-neutral-changing-rooms-part-2

I have one preteen girl in my house, who as of today will no longer be going to Top Shop on her own or with her friends.

Top shop can do what they like with their changing rooms but Travis and his friends will not be spending enough to cover the losses that will now result as the pre teen and teen girl market vote with their feet and shop elsewhere.

Target in America did a similar thing, opening up the women's bathrooms and changing rooms to men.

Two things happened.

1. Target's profits plumetted as women and girls shop elsewhere.

1. The number of offences against women in Target bathrooms and changing rooms increased significantly.

Top shop is likely to have the same issues. Not that I care. Topshop have thrown women and girls under the bus because of three tweets from one man.