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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU? - Annual leave

152 replies

MrsR31 · 20/03/2017 18:29

I'd like some opinions please, especially from those of you who might have HR experience.

Background is, I work part time, used to be mon to wed. Employer asked if I would take on new role last year and work mon/tue & fri. Agreed and rejigged childcare. Today I got new holiday sheet for the next year, I get pro rats share of 25 days & public hols. However, this time I will only get 7 public holidays despite working days falling on all 12. Meaning that whilst office is closed, I have to supplement p/h with 5 days annual leave (one & a half weeks). Leaving me with ten days for the year.

AIBU to expect full p/h allocation? Feel that it's unfair, especially as I changed my days to suit business needs and wouldn't have agreed if I had been made aware of the implications. I never have spare annual leave due to needing days for filling childcare gaps. Solutions offered were to work back extra 5 days -not feasible, work PT for a reason, or change days so that not working mon & Friday. But that's a major pain in the arse too as I need to rejig childcare again and I was watching my niece on my day off, so also going to mess up my sisters childcare.

OP posts:
MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/03/2017 18:34

Yabu. You can either use your annual leave on the extra days or make up the time which is fair.

Why should you get full timer public holidays when you're part time?

Would they let you take unpaid leave for some of those 5 days? You would earn a bit less for that particular week but it's less faffing about. They might say no to that if there's too much work to do.

Could you make up the time at the weekend? It's only 5 days and spread across the year that might not be too bad??

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/03/2017 18:36

Can you work from home on the bank holiday if the office is closed? Presumably you can find someone to look after your child on a bank holiday?

Obviously this is not possible for all jobs.

booellesmum · 20/03/2017 18:37

I work 4 days a week in the NHS.
I get BH pro rata so 6 hours for every BH.
I have to take the BH off as no option to work them.
This means 1 hour 30 mins off my A/L for each BH (as my working day is 7 1/2 hours)or I have to work the time back on a different day to make it up.
I think this is fairly common. Wish it wasn't!

topcat2014 · 20/03/2017 18:38

I think they have calculated your holiday entitlement correctly, btw
(am a finance director) - and I do the same for my staff.

However, I would offer, if required, the option of unpaid 'time off' for some of the bank holidays if really necessary.

No getting around the fact that if you only work p/t, you only get p/t paid bank holidays.

MangoSplit · 20/03/2017 18:40

I work part time (0.5 FTE) and that is how my bank holiday entitlement is calculated, so I suppose YABU.

I don't understand why it's changed for you - most bank holidays fall on a Monday, and you worked Mondays before and after the change. Is it something unlucky about the timing of Christmas this year?

remoaniac · 20/03/2017 18:40

Why should you get full timer public holidays when you're part time

Because they are given by the government, not the employer. I've never understood the losing bank holidays because you are part-time thing and it can't be fair that you end up with less holiday if you work certain days in the week.

What you need to check out is whether the total number of days holiday you receive is pro-rata to your hours. So if you would get 33 days for full-time, you should be getting 3/5 of that. It should not depend on the days you work - but you will be forced to take some of your leave on the bank holidays. I work PT but I work every day, so I don't find myself in this position. I was absolutely hammered for bank holidays in my previous role though.

I can understand why you are annoyed, especially when you changed days to suit the employer.

Original poster
MrsR31 · 20/03/2017 18:41

The office is closed on bank hols and at weekends so not given the choice. They also do not allow working from home either. if it wasn't closed, I would work them. I feel that when they asked me to take over new days, they should have made this clear. As I wasn't aware and wouldn't have agreed to lose one and a half weeks of holiday entitlement when I can least afford too. Especially with dd starting school.

OP posts:
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 20/03/2017 18:42

Sorry but YABU. That is how holiday is calculated.

rookiemere · 20/03/2017 18:42

Yes Monday as a day off is a pain in the butt as a pro-rata part timer.
To be fair to your work, they probably scarcely understand it themselves, but it does seem like they have calculated it correctly.

rookiemere · 20/03/2017 18:43

Sorry I mean working Mondays Blush.

Can you take parental leave for DD starting school? I know it's unpaid but it helps to transition in.

Original poster
MrsR31 · 20/03/2017 18:44

Mangosplit I think we have 5 Friday bank holidays here too. This is why it's affecting me.

OP posts:
PageNowFoundFileUnderSpartacus · 20/03/2017 18:44

This is fairly standard IME. Bank Holidays have always been pro-rated for PT staff wherever I've worked. It's worse for you this year because Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year's Day are all Mondays/Tuesdays but that won't always be the case.

LurkingQuietly · 20/03/2017 18:47

Are you in the U.K.? I'm confused by the getting 7 of the 12 Public Holidays?

Mari50 · 20/03/2017 18:48

I purposely chose my part time hours to be tues-fri so I got 'extra' a/l. Hate enforced days off!!
But yes, I'm afraid YABU, take unpaid if you don't want to use a/l but you aren't entitled to f/t public holiday entitlement when you work p/t.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/03/2017 18:50

Because they are given by the government, not the employer

What makes you think that?! There is no legal entitlement to bank holidays/public holidays just to holiday. That entitlement is 5.6 weeks FTE (full time equivalent) and should be pro rata'd and rounded up to the nearest half day for a part time employee. The relevant bit of law is Working Time (Amendment) Regulations 2007.

Employers have always been able to dictate when employees can take leave (unless otherwise explicitly cited in the employment contract) and most employers choose to exercise that right for bank holidays.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/03/2017 18:51

If it's any consolation op it won't be as bad for other years.

Can you do a childcare swap with your sister or can your partner take leave so you can work one some of the days?

Trills · 20/03/2017 18:52

Depending on your role, they could be more flexible about you working from home.

It is both of your responsibility to ensure that you understand how part time holiday allowances work. Since you already worked at the company and already worked part time, it's not unreasonable of them to have assumed that you understood it.

You shouldn't get all the bank holidays off, when someone doing the same number of hours as you but working Tues/Weds/Thurs would get less.

Smidge001 · 20/03/2017 18:53

Another YABU I'm afraid. As a part timer you get pro-rata share of annual leave and pro-rata share of bank holidays.

Btw, little known but apparently not all bank holidays are prescribed. Companies don't have to give you the bank holiday dates just a set number of days off per year - which are pro rated for part timers.

Read this from Gov.uk website
www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

Minimum statutory holiday is 28days, including bank holidays. Companies don't have to give bank holiday dates as part of annual leave (but must give minimum of 28 in total)

Part timers get a pro-rated share of that 28 days.

If you work 3 days a week you'd get 3/5ths * 28 days off in total.

AFAIK (and certainly in all jobs I've had) companies can set which days you can take - e.g. Must take bank holidays and 1 week over Christmas period etc. I've often only had free choice for 10 days of my holiday entitlement. Should say in your contract/company policy on holidays.

Original poster
MrsR31 · 20/03/2017 18:53

Taking them unpaid wasn't given as an option but I will discuss it tomorrow. I'm just pissed off that none of this was discussed at the time as they knew I wouldn't have changed days if this was going to be the case. Just feel done over by the whole thing.

OP posts:
Bringmewineandcake · 20/03/2017 18:54

Yeah it sucks but it is correct, sorry OP. I used to do mon, thurs, fri and had the same problem as you. I now work weds, thurs, fri and still get pro rata bank holidays but obviously benefit this way round as most fall on a Monday.
If it really really bothers you, change your days.

Friolero · 20/03/2017 18:54

Are you in the U.K.? I'm confused by the getting 7 of the 12 Public Holidays?

I'm confused too, I can only count 8 (NY day, 2x Easter, 2x May, August, Christmas, Boxing Day) so I assume not in the UK?

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/03/2017 18:55

Just to be crystal clear nobody should be getting less than their pro rata entitlement for being part time. That would be unlawful as per Part Time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000. It sounds like the op is getting exactly her fair share (I've not calculated it but nothing she has said sounds unfair).

But then I understand how to calculate holiday properly and nobody "loses holiday" Hmm Grin

Nicpem1982 · 20/03/2017 18:55

Mari50- I did that too my set days are tues- Friday and if I have to work Mondays for business needs I get double time back

Trills · 20/03/2017 18:56

they knew I wouldn't have changed days if this was going to be the case

No, they really didn't. They didn't think about this at all.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/03/2017 18:57

Exactly Trills.