AIBU? - Annual leave

[MrsR31]

I'd like some opinions please, especially from those of you who might have HR experience.

Background is, I work part time, used to be mon to wed. Employer asked if I would take on new role last year and work mon/tue & fri. Agreed and rejigged childcare. Today I got new holiday sheet for the next year, I get pro rats share of 25 days & public hols. However, this time I will only get 7 public holidays despite working days falling on all 12. Meaning that whilst office is closed, I have to supplement p/h with 5 days annual leave (one & a half weeks). Leaving me with ten days for the year.

AIBU to expect full p/h allocation? Feel that it's unfair, especially as I changed my days to suit business needs and wouldn't have agreed if I had been made aware of the implications. I never have spare annual leave due to needing days for filling childcare gaps. Solutions offered were to work back extra 5 days -not feasible, work PT for a reason, or change days so that not working mon & Friday. But that's a major pain in the arse too as I need to rejig childcare again and I was watching my niece on my day off, so also going to mess up my sisters childcare.

[Bringmewineandcake]

Sorry, I should explain the "benefit". I get 5 weeks annual leave + 5 days for public holidays. The only bank holidays I have to cover would be good Friday, and the occasional Xmas day/Boxing Day/New Years day when they happen to fall on a Friday. Otherwise I can use the 5 days as I wish. I don't get the benefit of a bank holiday Monday as such, but every Monday is a non-working day for me so that's how it balances out.

[Ameliablue]

If the number of hours you've worked haven't changed, shouldn't have changed as you should have been Pro rata last year too. Also you said you worked Mondays before so has it not only added Good Friday?

[Ihavefriends]

Yabu, it's standard. Can you buy some annual leave?

[unfortunateevents]

What are these 12 public holidays?

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

I think there's a reasonable argument it should be spelled out to PTers what the policy is on bank holidays, but equally there was no reason for you to assume you'd be able to get the full allocation. Mutual failure to raise important issue here.

[BusyBeez99]

For my part time employee I use the government website to calculate it. She works 4 days a week, not fridays. The website works it out. Then on days where there is a bank holiday she has to use one of those pro-rata 28 days she gets on those days as we are closed. So this year that's 1st January, Easter Monday, the two May days, august Monday and then the two xmas/Boxing Day ones. She then uses the rest of her holiday on other days she wants off. Check the govt website as it's very useful when calculating

[BackforGood]

Where are you that you get 12 public holidays?
Usually on MN people assume you are in the UK unless you state otherwise. 'Rules' re holiday entitlement might be different in other countries for all we know.

I deliberately choose not to work Mondays as most UK Bank Holidays fall on a Monday. YABU to think you should get extra holiday because you work PT - AL is pro rata, like pay is.

[scottishdiem]

I think you might be able ask for some discretion for this holiday year as you changed to meet their needs and this wasnt made clear (it wasn't hidden from you though, it wasn't thought through on either side).

[WatchingFromTheWings]

YABU. You either use your holiday or work the hours another day in the week.

[VivienneWestwoodsKnickers]

Why don't you work a different day on the affected weeks and not use any AL? Given you worked on Mondays before, what did you do then? Aren't there only a couple of Fridays affected?

[MissJC]

Hi, for the company I work for bank holiday annual leave is calculated from your hours worked in a week, so for every bank holiday day, you get a fifth of your working week contributed.

So I work 40 hours a week, divide it by 5 and that is how many hours I get per bank holiday day which is pretty straight forward.

Some of my colleagues who don't work a Monday shift benefit from this whereas people who only work say Monday and Tuesdays end up owing a couple of hours.

It is the fairest way.

[Happyfeet1972]

HR background here and they're entirely correct.tbh I can't for the life of me think why they'd need to point out the implications, surely it's fairly obvious you'll only get 3/5 of the bank hols.

As your hours haven't changed you'll still get the same number of days off per year it's just I guess you'll have less control over when you take them if you need to cover more of the public holidays. Tbh I can't see how it would make such a big difference...Most bank hols are on a Monday but that part of your pattern hadn't changed? So it's just the move from a wed to a Fri? In which case as a pp said it must be a bad year for your work pattern because there's only 1 specific bank hol on a Friday so generally speaking you should only need to cover that 1 extra day.

Unfortunately you'll need to suck it up or look for unpaid leave or ask to change pattern or whatever because there's no way on Earth they'll give you a full timers allocation....Not when they don't have to and if they did they'd be inundated with similar requests. Sorry OP just one of those things....Like I say, it may feel you're worse off but the number of days off are unchanged.

[Ameliablue]

I think your work could reasonably assume you were aware of the policy so should have been aware how it would effect you without then having to spell it out.

[Astro55]

But a week off will be 3 days holiday - on a bank holiday week it's just 2 days holiday -

So 10 days could be 3 weeks or 5 weeks

[flutterby77]

This is not right. Public holidays can't be taken away if you are allowed them in your contract (not everyone is) unless you have a shift based job where you would normally expect to work bank holidays and need to take the time in lieu on other days eg nurses.

Some employers give part time workers an additional pot of leave if they miss out on the benefit of public holidays by their normal "off" days falling on them. I used to do this for my part time staff but it wasn't a legal requirement, just a nice to have/do.

You are being massively disadvantaged by the fact you work part time. Effectively they are both denying you your right to take public holidays off like your colleagues.

If you work part time you do not get part time bank holidays. If you work part time and your work days mainly fall on public holidays (eg Mondays) then that is the luck of the draw and you can't be asked to effectively pay your employer back for the pleasure of not working those days when they are not enabling you to chose to work if they are giving that benefit to full time colleagues.

What size company is it? I would speak to ACAS for advice on how to address this personally but it sounds like breach of contract to me.

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1374

[ThreeLeggedHaggis]

I don't understand. If your workplace is closed on bank holidays, why do you have to take annual leave? Surely you just don't go to work?

Or is it that you want to be paid for bank holidays, even though you aren't working on those days?

[Chocolatecake12]

If in the U.K. There are 9 back holidays this year, from April 1st to 31st march. Easter 2018 is early meaning good Friday falls in march.

[Astro55]

Full time workers get 12 days paid bank hoilidays
OP works 3/5 days so gets paid for 7.2 days

Meaning roughly she either doesn't get paid on bank holiday - or owes the company 5 days of her holiday as she has to be off those days

So 25 days - part time is 15 days holiday - less 5 to cover bank holidays - unless she gets them unpaid (which I thought would be the case)

[RockyTop]

From my experience they have calculated it correctly. You are still getting the same number of days off, just the BHs are fixed.

I'm also confused about the 12 days things, does that include additional days that the company is closed (around Christmas maybe) that aren't actually BHs?

[dailystuck71]

I agree with Haggis.

[MrsR31]

Thanks for all your info. I'll go discuss some of the options suggested. Either unpaid or working from home.

Childcare swap with my sister isn't feasible right now, she's back at uni studying nursing so is in every day at present, on days where I don't help, she uses Nursery.

For the poster that asked where I am, I am in the UK. We get 12 public holidays , think a lot of employers don't give all 12.

[peoplepleaser70]

This is 100% correct. Surely you knew how it was worked out when you did mon-weds so they didn't need to tell you when you changed days. I work mon-weds too... we get holidayed in hours now and I am going to work a few extra hours here and there around the school run to cover the holidays I have to use for bank holidays. I do think it's unfair. I had a colleague who worked 3 different days to me and actually got 6 more days holiday to use how she pleased as most of the bank holidays fell on her non working days but obviously she was still allowed the 3/5 allowance. I used to work part time but got the full allowance... when it changed i was fuming and did a lot of research and it's right. Does sting a bit when everyone's looking forward to the bank holiday and you know you are having to use annual leave :/

[FloweryTwat]

I have changed to Mondays now as a p/t'er. I work Fridays instead, use flexi or use my AL. There is no other way round it I'm afraid.

[harderandharder2breathe]

I work full time but compressed hours. As my day off is Wednesday I lose AL for bank holidays. If my day off fell on the BH I would gain AL. This is because we work an extra 1.75 hours a day to earn our day off. So if Monday is a bank holiday I haven't earned the extra 1.75 on that day. If I work all four days and the BH is on my day off I've earned my day off but worked a full week plus bank holiday so I get extra. In my department most people's day off rotates so it works out roughly breaking even, having a fixed day means I lose out. But having Wednesday off suits me, I chose it and it's worth the slight loss of AL imo

[BackforGood]

There are 8 BHs in England anyway......

New Year's day - always 1st Jan or 1st Monday if it is a weekend
Good Friday - always a Fri but date varies
Easter Monday - always a Mon by date varies
First Monday in May
Last Monday in May
Last Monday in August
Christmas Day - Day of week varies but always 25th Dec
Boxing day - Day of week varies but always 26th Dec