AIBU? - Annual leave

[MrsR31]

I'd like some opinions please, especially from those of you who might have HR experience.

Background is, I work part time, used to be mon to wed. Employer asked if I would take on new role last year and work mon/tue & fri. Agreed and rejigged childcare. Today I got new holiday sheet for the next year, I get pro rats share of 25 days & public hols. However, this time I will only get 7 public holidays despite working days falling on all 12. Meaning that whilst office is closed, I have to supplement p/h with 5 days annual leave (one & a half weeks). Leaving me with ten days for the year.

AIBU to expect full p/h allocation? Feel that it's unfair, especially as I changed my days to suit business needs and wouldn't have agreed if I had been made aware of the implications. I never have spare annual leave due to needing days for filling childcare gaps. Solutions offered were to work back extra 5 days -not feasible, work PT for a reason, or change days so that not working mon & Friday. But that's a major pain in the arse too as I need to rejig childcare again and I was watching my niece on my day off, so also going to mess up my sisters childcare.

[treaclesoda]

you have no legal right whatsoever to take leave when you want to take it

This reminds me of a colleague many years ago. She was getting married and her husband to be worked in a job where his company shut down for a week at Christmas, two weeks in the summer and a week at Easter. That was it, he had no flexibility in leave at all. My colleague had flexibility in theory but in reality our company were refusing to let her have any of those weeks as leave because they loved being awkward. She ended up taking unpaid leave if I remember, and it was a huge fight, needing involvement of the union, to even be allowed that.

My boss effectively set the date of my wedding - I was told 'the only week you can have off is this one because we're too short staffed' and that was that. It's frustrating but it's the norm for a lot of people to not get to choose their own leave.

[AllDaBoats]

This is very standard. They haven't done anything wrong.

There's a part-timer at our place and they allow her to simply work another day that week if she doesn't want to use a holiday day for banks. Which works out well for her so your place could do the same perhaps

[Newtssuitcase]

You get the benefit of them. You're not in work.

Your annual pay is your annual pay - you don't get annual salary plus leave pay and so you're not financially disadvantaged in any way.

[SafeToCross]

Yeah, I used to think like you until I got a manager who actually took note of these things and started making me calculate it properly...oh well, just think how you benefitted previously, if you did?

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

It is annoying. Not unfair, but annoying. I deliberately try not to work on Mondays for this very reason. It would be better if jobs where this is feasible would allow wfh on BH as an option instead. I realise this won't work if you're, say, a theatre nurse, but there are jobs where it would.

[grannytomine]

It is the normal way to work out BH for part timers. Look at it the other way and if you worked Wed/Thur and didn't get any bank holidays off would that be fair?

[HiMyNameIsUnknown]

Fully agree this is normal. For those implying her employer should offer flexibility to WFH or change days the week of a bank holiday why? Business need may not require the OP as a resource on an alternative day and not all employers/jobs allow WFH. I actually know of two people recently working in different large international companies where WFH has been removed company wide.

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

Because if it's feasible, why not? Clearly there are cases where this wouldn't work, but there are also cases where it would be of benefit to the business to have someone available on a day where more people are free than usual.

[purplecollar]

My boss effectively set the date of my wedding - I was told 'the only week you can have off is this one because we're too short staffed' and that was that. It's frustrating but it's the norm for a lot of people to not get to choose their own leave.

I worked for the NHS. I got married on a Friday, was at work for a week, then allowed a week off for honeymoon a week after my wedding. I don't think people realise this happens but it does. This was with over 8 months' notice.

[Trills]

I think in general that more businesses should offer working from home - many do not when they really could.

If you don't trust your employees to get work done when working from home, do you really think they are getting work done in the office?

(excluding work where people need to be in a particular place at a particular time of course)

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

Very true. People are capable of pissing about in any location.

Also, anything that reduces the amount of commuting people are doing has a positive environmental impact. We as a society should be encouraging that as far as possible. If every job that could be done remotely was done from home one day a week, imagine how much easier the roads and public transport would be and how much less carbon we'd be pumping into the atmosphere!

[smallchanceofrain]

Sorry OP, YABU.

I work three days a week and my public holidays are calculated in the same way as yours.

When I was job share I worked the front end of the week and my job share partner worked the back end of the week. It would have been unfair if I'd got all the Monday bank holidays and she only got Good Friday!

[Whatthefreakinwhatnow]

I haven't read the full thread so someone might have alre5said this, bit when I worked part time my leave was calculated in hours not days, so I got something like 118 hours leave and 68 for bank holidays (example, can't remember exact hours!) I then took 7 hours per day leave and bank holidays and it was usually enough after they were pro-rata'd. Leave in days doesn't really work for part time IME.

[BeyondThePage]

I see where the OP is coming from though. She changed her days for them. You would think they would give some accommodation.

Who WANTS half their leave to be limited by the fact they have to save some for bank holidays?

People who don't work Mondays can generally take their leave whenever they want - give or take a day, people who do work Mondays HAVE to take 5 or 6 days off of their employer's choosing. Who wants 5 separate Mondays off - not of your own choosing - when you could have a whole week when you want to?

So, that is also slightly unfair. (and why people who work part-time try to avoid Monday working when possible)

[Whatthefreakinwhatnow]

They should be pro-rata, so if for example there are 11 public and privilege days in the year, at 7.5 hours a day, and you work 22 hours a week, then you would get 49 hours leave for them.

[scrumpymummy]

At my work place they take all
Monday Bank hols from me which I have queried before but told the calculation is correct I work 4 days pw Mon-Thursday so my leave is calculated at 80% of FT minus 7 days or whatever it is for the BHs which doesn't seem equitable. The full timers get their leave plus full Bank Hols entitlement..

[IckleWicklePumperNickle]

We’re lucky at my work. If you only work Tuesday—Thursday and the bank holiday falls on a Monday or Friday, you claim your normal work day hours back as leave. If your days off falls on a BH, you get the day off as a normal BH.

It’s like a PP said, the government set the BH days.

I’m in a large private company.

[Munchyseeds]

Used to happen to me when I worked in public sector...would not have chosen to work Mondays for this reason but had no choice.
From what I remember it would have been fine if I had worked hours equally over 5 days as A/l would have covered it

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"Bank hols in Scotland are "

That's a lot of holidays, MrsR, but perhaps some of them are extras given by your place of work.

As far as I see from the government websites both Scotland and England have 9 public holidays ... albeit some of them might be on different days in each country.

So if your employer is paying you (pro-rata) for 12, in addition to your (pro-rata) annual leave, then your doing quite well.

So not only is your employer giving three extra bank holiday (pro-rata) days, but these aren't being taken from your annual leave allowance. Bear in mind that employers have no obligation to pay bank holidays and, even if they are closed on these days, could take them all out of their employees annual leave allowance.

I can understand that your working pattern means that you are off a 'full-time' number of bank holidays, while only having a 'part-time' number allocated as paid holiday, which must be disappointing if you hadn't thought of it, but with careful use of your annual leave you should be able to minimise the effect of that. For example, opt to take leave in a week that has a bank holiday, so you only have to use two additional days from your allowance.

[ivykaty44]

On a side

I would have the hassle and change days. Knowing that every single teacher training day was scheduled for a Monday or Friday, I wouldn’t want to work these days.

It will be a major pita for the next 11 years
Added to your problem of BH

I opted for Tuesday Wednesday Thursday

Snow days and sick days were then all I needed to cover

It may put your sis out but in the long run your life would surely be easier?

[Yetty123]

Hi , I need help ive gone back to work part time after having my girl. My boss has said my holiday entitlement is 12 days holiday. I work 23 hours a week work thur/fri/sat. Is this correct? X

[needtogetagrip]

God, why do people with kids act so flipping self-entitled at work sometimes??! YABVU.

[BlackberryandNettle]

Haven't read the full thread but where are you? There are only 8 public holidays per year in the UK as far as I know... New year's Day, good Friday, Easter Monday, early may bh, late may bh, August bh, Christmas day, Boxing Day. Right??

[Fridaydreamer]

@Yetty123 you might be better starting your own thread but your holidays will be pro-rata. So work take the holidays of a full time person, divide by 5 (days a FT would work) and then times by 3 (the number of days you would work).

It sounds as if your employer gives 20 days holiday:

20 divided by 5 = 4.... 4 x 3 = 12

Then bank hols may be in addition to this. If you speak to your employer they should clarify it for you.

[Fridaydreamer]

... in essence you get 4 weeks holiday

(A week for you is 3 days)