To wonder how males are allowed to compete and win in female sports

[Bambambini]

NZ weight lifter Tracey Lebrechts has had her nationsl records broken and her place in the National team taken by a male Laurel Hubbard - previously Gavin. How is this fair and just why is this allowed?

www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/other/nz-weightlifting-body-stands-decision-let-first-transgender-weightlifter-compete

Height advantage or disadvantage would be true of exceptionally tall females also. Less likely but not at all impossible. Lots of naturally tall athletes go into sports where their height is an advantage (or shorter athletes ie jockies) we can't ban that
It's about fair selection for sports though.

High jump

My opinion on this sports thing is that people should compete in their own SEX category

If doping (eg. transman on T) then they are excluded, same as doping for any other reason as doping also gives an unfair advantage.

" I think she's in the same camp as tumbletrans, in that she acknowledges biological difference and is interested in making and keeping sport fair. "

I've heard of Harper. I din't think there is any fairness though in any male taking a place of a female. In team sports there is always going to be one female pushed out to make way. If competitive - a female pushed out and opponents having to face a male. Yes some women will easily beat some men - being msle doesn't mean you are always going to be better or bigger - but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

I guess if some local sports groups like running, cycling groups where they can take part. Or fun netball, football teams etc who might extend a welcome to TW or TM - but that should be up to the group to decide surely.

Tumble - good on you

Doyouwantabrew:

In this case I do not want to explain further. Why can you not accept that? The more I hear from you, the more I am inclined to think you are just a dominating type who can't be told someone doesn't want to discuss something further.

Maidofstars, those graphics really hit home, thanks for sharing.

MsG

About 2 years ago I didnt care either. I was very ignorant and did not see how what somebody wore or what they called themself could impact on the rights of women.

Strange but you invited discussion by throwing around accusations of trans hate. Did you really think nobody would call you on it?
Then when you cant answer because you lied you are all "oh you are all domineering, hate to be told no bullies"

Truth is you had your arse handed to you and rightly so but you are so singled minded you wont do the decent thing and slip off the thread.

You have shown yourself up Trifle and your over investment in a thread you dont agree with is a cause for concern.

Could the folk going back and forth non stop saying "miss, she said this" and miss, she did that" get off the bloody thread. Just leave off having to get the last fucking word in!

No probs OP I'm done.

I just did a bit of googling on the issue of height - for the US (first set of stats I came across) average male height is 5'9", while only 7 in 1000 women (0.7%) are 5'10" or over. In other words - the point at which you hit the 50% of men mark, I guess about 1 to 2% of women are that over height (being generous about the shape of the distribution).

Now think in terms of choosing a women's basket ball team - what's the chance that a randomly chosen transwoman will be the tallest person on the team?

keeptrudging
I made a third (these were done a while ago now)

"Laurel Hubbard, the trans weightlifter in NZ is I believe older, and has had a career in weightlifting as a man already. And yet, when transitioned to be a transwomen, they are suddenly international/Olympic standard and breaking records left right and centre. That's not a very convincing position from which to argue that transwomen have no advantage over women."

Exactly. I'd like to know high Gavin Hubbard had reached in the sport before transitioning. If he wasn't breaking records and being picked for the men's national squad - why not?

Thanks sookies!

Hopefully we can draw the attention of folk who had no clue what is happening to women's and girls sports. People need to know and we need to speak out loudly about this. I think it's the one issue that most folk will find hard to accept and ignore -,especially if Venus Williams gets beaten in the Wimbledon final by a TW in a few years.

I really hope and pray the backlash against all of this grows and deepens.

It's all gone way too fucking far and the fact that the emperor is in fact naked needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

There's only one way to deal with bullies, and that sure as hell isn't appeasement

Bambambini:

I have said several times and will say again now: I will post where I wish to post and I will reply to posters if I wish to do so. I have made it more than clear.

Maybe the sports authorities need another 'special' category for third sex/genderneutral/trans/intersex people whose musculature would give them an unfair advantage in competition against biologically female women, but who don't believe themselves to be male. Like the paralympics give an equal opportunity to people who share a defined characteristics.

Or maybe (speaking as an unsporty person) trans and intersex people have so many disadvantages in life they are welcome to sport?

Evening all,
We have received quite a few reports about this thread and have made some deletions. We reckon there has been a bit of GFery going on, but hopefully it will stop now.

"Now think in terms of choosing a women's basket ball team - what's the chance that a randomly chosen transwoman will be the tallest person on the team?"

A 50 plus Dessret Storm vet TW was able to go back and play college basketball. They had slready played as a young man first round time which would have exempted them from having a second go - as a man.

Thanks mumsnetHelen.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog
I worked the stats once for the basketball issue. If you account for the average heights of male/female public/team, the % of females who fall into the narrow window for 'acceptable height' for basketball and then factor in the % population of transwomen, you end up with something ridiculous like 2/3 of those women who are tall enough to be considered for national teams are transwomen. I can't retrieve the post from FB, as the group no longer exists.

Agreed that a tranwoman should not be able to compete against women. How can we reverse these decisions?

Agreed that women only safe spaces are being eroded. How can we put a stop to this?

Agreed transpeople should be able to live as they wish without fear.

Can trasnpeople change their passport gender in the U.K.? Are there stipulations?

Agreed we have sleepwalked into this, with a loud trasnactivist group shouting 'terf' at any woman questioning the process.

Feel free to PM me the answers. I will write to my mp on the gender identity bill.

Never heard of the coton ceiling?! Off to google.

Never heard of the coton ceiling?!

You wont like it.....

Ok trifle you win. You win the prize for slinging mud and then beep beeping like a refuse truck.

No I am not the gender to dominate either will leave that to you.