Week 3. What will this week bring? Trump thread

[amispartacus]

Continued

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2846025-Trump-thread-continued-Who-rules-the-USA-Vote-now

Agree with that too, Lweji. No one comes out of this election looking good. Apart from Bernie Sanders, perhaps.

A survey is only as good as the question asked.

Now, that's a balanced post. :)

And very true.

A musical take, on why Trump won.

A survey is only as good as the question asked

Shown it before - will show it again.

The wording is so important. It can be so subtle but it just persuades you - it's what Paul Mckenna does.

Dont take it personally, Im a contrarian who really doesn't like Trump but your the one just spamming everything from your echo chamber, if you did actually look at the poll you would see it was in response to your "Germany combating American Nazi-ism" comment, maybe you need to wait a while until you someone on facebook offers a counter argument before you respond....

Oh of course, don't take it personally, yet you again accuse me of spamming. We had this conversation the other day, and I'm not going to keep having it. Back off and stop attacking me. I don't have to post to your rules. I don't need to "balance" my posts at all.

From Sing Out! folk magazine, Woody Guthrie's old magazine
singout.org
They do lovely folky podcasts, if you like that sort of thing

And that can be hard to see when you are not 'other'.

And if you are 'other' and you complain, raise objections and ask for a safe space - then the people with the big platform call you 'snowflake' or worse.

If you think "othering" is just done by the majority then you dont really understand the natural swing that is happening, identity politics is a contribution to this, Ive been called an uncle tom, and as has been proven with Brexit and now Trump is the left abandoning and ridiculing the "blue collar/working class" that they supposedly championed...

Poll? Pfffft. All polls are fake. Ask Trump

That poll gave them the answer they wanted.
When someone commisions a poll, ask who is doing it and what are their reasons....

True independence is hard to find.

USA TODAY ‏*@USATODAY* 9s9 seconds ago
More
The White House is still not open for tourists.

www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/07/donald-trump-melania-trump-white-house-tours/97590526/?hootPostID=3fa1392f695e5940b4541c5491593877

Perhaps they need to find the light switches first.

Back off and stop attacking me.

Please.... we are all adults here ... there is no attack, if you dont want to try and counter my response so be it

Are you suggesting that the reason people voted trump was because people from minority groups were mean to the people in the majority that routinely oppress and disadvantage them? Excuse me while I find my tiny violin...

I'm not required to "counter your response" and not required to post "balanced posts" so as long as you stop sniping at me about it, that's fine.

Perhaps they need to find the light switches first.
Could be a metaphor, though.

But GOP should also question how they ended up with Trump as their candidate
Trump's been compared to Ross Perot, remember him? So many were really gutted that he didn't get nominated, and the extreme right of the GOP have been building up this head of steam for decades, for a Trump like candidate. And he was a good candidate on many levels, mainly, he's the popular face of their brand of republicanism. if you could still call it that. Pence, wouldn't have won it for them.
Unless you're suggesting something more sinister, Lweji on how they caved in to let him through, which I could completely believe happened.

If you think "othering" is just done by the majority then you dont really understand the natural swing that is happening, identity politics is a contribution to this

Do you think people who are minorities and who have gained rights have anything to fear when people who are the majority and who have raised concerns over these rights are on the ascendance?

It is a mind fuck when you can see that OTOH, a leader and their party might be good to bring you out of poverty and give you hope - but at the same time, they are sexist / racist / mysoginist / homophobic etc and that could affect you.

That's why people assuming many women wouldn't vote for Trump because of his sexism were probably surprised when women seemed to ignore that side of his character because they wanted hope.

White, straight men probably didn't have to worry how they would be treated under Trump but some of them were (and are) no doubt concerned about the rise of minority groups and the acceptance of people.

Here's an interesting perspective on DeVos from the "other side". reason.com/blog/2017/02/07/the-question-isnt-do-you-support-betsy-d

CNN Politics ‏*@CNNPolitics* now3 seconds ago
More
The future of Obamacare: What’s next? @TedCruz and @BernieSanders debate at 9 p.m. ET #CNNDebateNight

Still conflicting info. Ryan says it will be stopped in 2017, while Trump says no replacement until 2018.

Have you seen the Moroccan video?

We have the best Islam. Sufi Islam. It's fun. You'd like it.

if you dont want to try and counter my response so be it

So - what do you think of the question in the poll you quoted...

All further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped

Further
Migration
Muslim
Stopped

Negative words.....followed by a negative at the end.

woman Ross Perot. Oh god, yes, I remember. Surely there are better people in the ranks of the GOP?

But Lurker, if this is some kind of echo chamber, bring some new views in. Challenge it. Say why people's posts are factually incorrect. Don't just wander in effectively shouting "sheeple" and demanding everyone change their opinions for no reason except that it suits you.

Doesn't matter, they are happy to go along with the rest, you are still making an assumption that those that didnt vote would automatically vote for the dems.

No, I am assuming that people who have voted democrat previously but didn't bother to vote or voted for third parties will vote democrat again.

Again with the assumptions, there was a lot of Sanders voters who flipped to Trump, and those that voted for third parties need to be addressed, which comes back to self reflection, so my original point still stands

I linked to statistics showing gains made by Trump and the far greater losses made by Clinton. Here is another article:
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/omribenshahar/2016/11/17/the-non-voters-who-decided-the-election-trump-won-because-of-lower-democratic-turnout/?client=safari

UKIP would disagree, and the fact that Corbyn himself has said that he needs to take on a more populist approach kind of negates the argument.

Corbyn is a populist. He may not have universal appeal, but momentum is a populist movement through and through. I agree that UKIP ran, but their performance wasn't exactly Trump like.

Your point is that the Democrats need to reflect on why they lost. Fair enough. Obviously any party needs to reflect on why they lost. The republicans also need to reflect on how they ended up with Trump.

Love or hate Cameron, The 2015 election didn't contain any serious politician who was anything like Trump.

Isn't it also just demographics? Isn't this the last few decades of the white majority in the US?

by 2044, more than half of all Americans are projected to belong to a minority group (any group other than non-Hispanic White alone); and by 2060, nearly one in five of the nation’s total population is projected to be foreign born
www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p25-1143.pdf
Incredibly, the Trumpinistras don't see the beauty of a rainbow nation.

Corbyn is a populist There are many other ways I would describe him.

Sweagles!

Say why people's posts are factually incorrect

I would love someone to discuss Trump's tweets who agree with them. It's kind of interesting bringing up things they might not have realised or thought of and asking them why things haven't been said.

I know that sounds incredibly harsh - I feel for people who have been left behind, who struggle with jobs, education, work. I really do. But I think that a lot of blame is being forced on the wrong people - Islam, LGBT people etc.

The parallels are scary. No one has really argued against them - just said to ignore them. Minimised them.

We have had the worldwide slump.
Jobs have been lost.
Jobs have gone overseas.
People don't feel heard.
Immigration is seen as an issue.
The media and politicians make immigration an issue.
Politics gets nasty.
Words get spoken in anger.
A politician gets murdered - and yes, I do blame the rise of the far right and the words spoken - that somehow triggered that killer to carry out his actions.
A President comes along - and DIRECTLY links murder and rape to illegal immigrants. He gets the families of victims to stand up when he was discussing the wall.
He wants to have a weekly list of crimes committed by immigrants.
He called for ALL Muslims to be banned.
The UK press called the judges enemies of the people.
The US President tweeted about 'so called judges'.

So when people tell me to not worry, to think I'm being hysterical, over reacting - I ask why are they saying that?

Is there something they can't see? Why are they being so blind?

This is the US President doing this. Our PM is cozying up to him because we need to. The UK is going on similar lines.

Maybe she can't see the issues.

I hope to God I am wrong. But I hate the way the West is going. It frightens me.

Obama gave me hope. Even Cameron gave me hope.

But now - I am worried.