To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

I'm playing mumsnet bingo this evening. There a great 'aspergers is just an excuse' thread going on ATM too. Is there anything about muslims anywhere and it will be house?

Hello. My name is Fred. I am a man. I feel like a man. I have a penis. I like to rape women.

Rather conveniently I can now access vulnerable women whenever I like in spaces that they think are safe.

Do you know what I have to do?

I have to say "I am a woman". That is it. I don't have to change my name. I don't have to wear women's clothes. I don't have to hormones. (That would be very inconvenient as I need my strength if a woman tries to struggle.) I don't have to have surgery. I don't even have to shave.

I just walk straight into the women's changing rooms, say I am a woman and wait for one to be on their own.

Life is very good for Fred the Rapist in 2016.

Oh lord Pagwatch really?!

I'll be avoiding that thread. I've procrastinated enough already.

I only popped on for a quick look...

There's always something about Muslims.

There is nothing more predatory in principle about a transwoman using a woman's toilet. If you go down that route, lesbians wouldn't be allowed in women's toilets

What do lesbians have to do with anything? It's not about sexual attraction. trans women are males and commit crimes at the same rate as all other males. Lesbians are female and therefore far less likely to commit violent crimes.

"I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not"

Because they are men? Females use female toilets, men use male toilets.....That's just how it is

It's not about (just) about toilets!

Some spaces are sex segregated - this is a good thing because

Males are far more likely to commit sexual/violent assaults. Men (as a group) are a risk to women.

MtT offend at exactly the same rate as males, therefore they pose exactly the same risk.

If MtT had the slightest empathy or understanding of women they would understand why it is not appropriate to demand to use womens spaces.

summer if peope who want to use toilet for sinister reasons will do it anyway, then does it mean there is no point at all to try and protect women because men who want to rape/abuse/aggress will do it anyway?

When you go out of your house, do you lock it? Because someone who want to burglar your house will do it anyway, so why do you bother?

You do it for the same reasons that it is worth having segregated spaces for women.

Omg!!! What a weird response , penis owners and. On penis owners?????
I couldn't care less if a transwoman is using the ladies, in France you quite often have to walk past a man having a pee in order to use the cubicle, nobody bats an eye
I seriously don't understand what you are worried about if somebody wants to sexually attack someone in a ladies loo they don't need to dress up as a woman to do it
MN is a funny old place in one thread it's I've just bought my son a princess dress on the next it's all keep the penis owners away from my minky

The point is, where do you draw the line?

Where you CAN draw it! Unisex bathrooms already exist. I couldn't go to a female bathroom at work even if I wanted to. Who would police the bathrooms anyway? How are you going to stop someone going in? The other situations are completely different - they can and should be women only. However, I really think toilets are a non-issue because there is no way that you could enforce a rule anyway.

I started to laugh at that Exit and then realised it's probably true.
The world has gone to fuck.

Examples of TW committing typically male crime

"I'm completely with you OP, I genuinely don't see the big deal because at the end of the day if someone is using the women's toilets for sinister reasons then I think they're just going to do it anyway."

In other words, shut up hysterical transphobic women, you're going to get raped anyway so you may as well let the men in.

Avirgin excellent post really sums it up. I'll confess that prior to reading the threads on this I was woefully uneducated on the subject and couldn't see the issue, but reading more posts about it and researching the cotton ceiling has really opened my eyes. Hopefully it can for you too OP.

Yes I'm sure Fred and his friends are cockahoop Mum

Is it the extradition of Laurie L thread pag? I might give it a swerve

And some more

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teenage-boy-accused-2-rapes-9142386

And it is as easy as saying "i'm a woman" , "i want to be a woman"

There is a definite need for more unisex spaces.

HermioneWeasley that's a convenient tweet but it's a troll account, surely? Such nonsense wouldn't be entertained for a second here on MN. It looks to me like someone who's literally goading in order to further their anti-trans agenda or whatever.

What I don't understand is why so many MNetters assume that trans women are wannabe sex offenders. Is there any evidence to back this up? Why is this a logical assumption? These threads seem to be full of worse-case-scenarios and what-ifs. I'm genuinely interested to know if these fears are founded or just based on hysteria.

Dad a good question actually.

I would say that women might feel uncomfortable but they wont be more at risk from a FtM, unlike if a MtF uses women toilet.

And yes it then means its very hard to enforce because a man could then say that they are indeed a FtM and should have access to women toilet..

Arrrg....

If everyone must use the loo associated with the sex they were born with, and the reason being it makes women uncomfortable, then will there not then be people who identify as men but born female, who look and dress like men, who have facial hair etc, in the women's loos.

Practically speaking FtT "pass" far better than MtT.

Manumission

Yes it is but it's no worse than usual.

MrsBird Im not sure where you have been in France buty I have never found myself in that situation. And I am french....

I think there is a big problem with conflating very different issues.

I have no problem with whoever using which gender loos they have are most comfortable with and I think unisex loos are essential in the long term.

I do however agree there is a massive problem with trans in prison. Although I don't agree the answer is to throw them in the men's prison simply because they have a penis.

I think by conflating the two into what becomes a very unpleasant rhetoric a lot of support is lost for the later issue.