Continuation thread re IOC/trans policy and related trans issues

[fidel1ne]

Also a plug for the FB group

www.facebook.com/groups/ATWIWS/

Vicky Thompson was in a relationship with a man, unclear if that man considers himself straight, gay or bisexual.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-found-dead-after-6865058

Or pansexual demiromantic, or whatever the new style classifications are

Arguably a lesbian with a partner who has a penis isn't entirely a lesbian

I wouldn't presume to argue that, Obsidian, any more than I would presume to say Vicky's partner was gay/bi if that wasn't his stated sexuality.

However, as long as everyone involved wants to be there and can legally be there, there's no issue; the Lily Cade issue was about Chelsea Poe's entitlement to have sex with people who didn't want to have sex with her.

DrSeuss at some point words need to mean something. Lesbians are attracted to and have sexual relationships with women. Your pseudo intellectual waffle is getting boring.

Wow, that was uncalled for.

So if Owen Jones had a relationship with a trans man, you'd tell him he was no longer gay?

No it really wasn't, I can have rational conversation with someone who refuses to accept that words mean something. If you want to think up is down and lesbians like penis then go ahead.

This is about when we need to remember dictionary definitions:

Lesbian: A human female who is attracted to other human females.

Female: Of the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs.

A transwoman does not fit into either of the above definitions.

*can't

A trans man is a woman.

Owen jones has been quite clear in his non-attraction to bevaginaed people. This is apparently not transphobic though, unlike the lesbian cotton ceiling because, well, men.

A transman is female, you know - of the vag variety, not the cock and bollock variety

I'd see him as essentially bisexual, not "no longer gay". Obviously he could refer to himself however he wanted, pansexual or whatever bullshit he might prefer. But we've established dear Owen finds the idea of himself performing cunnilingus on a trans man outrageously homophobic, so it's purely academic.

WEP just posted about women's sport - twitter.com/wep_uk/status/693405917749075969

Yes, they're going to open up a can of worms with that tweet. Interesting to see how it pans out. I'm sure they've got some anodyne copy and paste sound bite ready for any dissenters.

Yes, it was uncalled for and rude.

I agree with most posters: a trans woman is male and a trans man is female.

However, the partner of Vicky Thomson, let's say, no doubt considers her a woman (ie gender identity based view). Therefore he may well see himself as a straight man.

If he self-described as bisexual, that would imply he'd be quite likely to be attracted to a non-transitioning male.

My original response to boopsy was on this kind of basis. I do completely agree that most lesbians (and straight men) are unlikely to be attracted to bepenised persons. And as said above, any attempts by bepenised persons to claim discrimination for lack of attraction are a load of entitled twattery.

Vicky Thompson had a penis, he had sex with a man who had a penis.

Boundaries and classifications are important, men are constantly trying to trangress lesbians boundaries.

Lesbians are raped and murdered into heterosexuality because these boundaries are constantly questioned are undermined.

"bepenised persons"

This Newspeak is doing my head in.

Repeat after me: Males. They are male.

Assuming they are adults and human, the word you are looking for is: Men.

Again, let's remember the dictionary definition:

Man: Adult human male.

BeyondBootcampsAgain
Owen jones has been quite clear in his non-attraction to bevaginaed people. This is apparently not transphobic though, unlike the lesbian cotton ceiling because, well, men.

I've asked on a previous thread what Owen Jones actually said. No evidence forthcoming and nor could I find any.

There was a thread about it at the time, with links to his twitter. I cant be arsed to search for it though.

As I pointed out to you Fascicle, Owen Jones not knowing about the "cotton ceiling" makes him quite spectacularly uninformed about radical feminists' (both lesbian and straight) objections to transactivists and trans ideology. So really he should just pipe down, as a gay man. If he did in fact know that's what lesbians have to deal with, and yet thinks being quizzed about whether he would perform cunnilingus on a trans man is a totally outrageous suggestion because he's gay, which is what he said, then he is, as I and many other people said, a big fat hypocrite who thinks women should just STFU.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2322768-Men-who-parade-how-feminist-they-are-but-who-can-fuck-right-off

Are you looking for these tweets by Owen Jones, by any chance?

I think the question of whether he would perform cunnilingus on a transman was sparked by this article where he said that having the view that transwomen aren't women is horribly bigoted. The logic being that if transwomen are women then transmen are men and therefore he shouldn't have a problem performing sex acts on a transman. He was, quite rightly, shocked at the suggestion that he should perform cunnilingus but was unable to connect the dots and realise that he fundamentally doesn't believe that transmen are men and, therefore, that transwomen are women. He also seems to be blissfully unaware that lesbians are expected to suck lady dick or is just incapable of seeing that him being expected to lick man pussy is the exact same thing.

So, he waded into the whole trans debate by calling gender critical feminist transphobes while either being woefully unaware of the actual issues or not giving a fuck because it doesn't affect him.

Hang on. The Helen Lewis in that tweet thread is the same Helen Lewis that thinks men competing against women in the Olympics is totes fair unless it's basketball and they're really tall.

Perhaps she reached peak-TERF and switched sides?