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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be shocked and scandalised that this went on unchecked for so long? [MN edit; contains details of current Rotherham news story, possibly triggering]

376 replies

ReputableBiscuit · 26/08/2014 17:00

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089

OP posts:
alemci · 26/08/2014 20:05

why don't the men have to be virgins though, I hate the double standards like Angel Clare in Tess.

Ronmione · 26/08/2014 20:10

why don't the men have to be virgins though

Unfortunately the only conclusion I can come to is in some cultures woman as seen as beneath men, who are 2nd class citizens who don't detest be respect

alemci · 26/08/2014 20:24

also why had hurting someone's feelings become more important than stopping rape and violence.

I hate the assumption that all white girls are promiscuous and sexually active at a young age and are fair game. it isn't always the xase

Bambambini · 26/08/2014 20:36

"I hate the assumption that all white girls are promiscuous and sexually active at a young age and are fair game. it isn't always the xase"

The problem here isn't that some young girls can be promiscuous and sexually active - it's that whole groups of men saw nothing wrong with treating girls in the way that they did. Also a problem if the police chose not to tackle this due race issues/ couldn't care less/ laziness.

phantomnamechanger · 26/08/2014 20:39

utterly sickening - I am shocked at the wiki articles - can anyone confirm those practises are deemed acceptable/widely practised in the UK - men can marry a baby girl - and its OK to have sex with girls under 9??

there are no words Sad

dolphinsandwhales · 26/08/2014 20:46

Yanbu. It is sick and terrifying and political correctness gone mad.

Children are being gang raped due to authorities afraid to appear racist against Pakistani men. Wtf.

somewherewest · 26/08/2014 20:53

Its hardly racism to say that different cultures hold differing views on gender and sexuality, and that some of those views are totally incompatible with contemporary western European norms.

Greengrow · 26/08/2014 22:09
  1. The comment I posted from Iran is not the view of most Iranians or most Muslims whether there or in the UK but I was just using it show how some think in those cultures.
  2. There is much more sexism from some groups of Asian men than some other groups because of things like family honour, bride price, girls marrying young, women as property, men allowed 4 wives women only 1 (if Islam etc) although even there multiple wives are rare in the UK as it costs a lot to keep several women.
  3. There is plenty of sexual attraction amongst men of all colours on this planet for children. It is there. We need to deal with it. We need to spend about 1000x what we spend on working out the cause whether genetic or whatever and we need to find ways not just to control it but to stop it at its root particularly sexual attraction to children below the age of puberty.
  4. No one is suggesting this is just an Asian males problem. There are more than enough scandals involving white fathers and stepfathers and their children and in all kinds of institutions.
Beastofburden · 26/08/2014 22:17

I find it specially upsetting that some of the perps are young men born and educated here. It's not that the old ways are taking a while to die out. They are continuing into a new generation who you might hope would have white female mates from school Sad

tittifilarious · 26/08/2014 22:20

I lay money that someone will say "robust procedures now in place...lessons will be learnt...all agencies will communicate better in future".

Every fucking time the same empty words come out.

alemci · 26/08/2014 22:27

surely the perpetrators are being racist themselves for victimising non Asian girls?

can you imagine the heavy handiness of the law if these blokes' sisters were being targeted by white men.

peacefuloptimist · 26/08/2014 22:27

The first time I ever heard about grooming was an article I read in the times about white grooming gangs targeting white teenage boys who were also raped, forced to perform sex acts and horrifically sexually abused by the men. One of the boys 14 at the time told of how he was sent to other cities by cab to be raped by other abusers who were part of the gang. Very similar crime and actions but surprisingly enough the article made no particular references to the race or culture of the men except in passing that they were white.

The crimes committed against these girls by these horrible abusers are shocking and the fact that they werent dealt with sooner by the local authorities is scandalous. They should be locked away in prison for a very long time and lessons should be learnt from this to make sure it is never repeated. But I cant help but have a sick feeling in my stomach that there are people trying to use this horrific crime as part of their sick agenda to stir up hatred towards others. When listening to the report I found it interesting that in fact they said the police and local council did not ignore these cases because of the race of the perpetrators or fear of offending communities but because they looked down on the girls themselves. The only significant point mentioned about race with regards to the council and police was that they wanted to play down the race of the perpetrators to avoid creating tensions. The complete opposite of what many on here are trying to do which is to play up the race and religion of the perpetrators to create tensions. I wonder which is worse.

The only people who should be held accountable for this crime are the perpetrators, the abusers. Just like in the story I mentioned above where the race was incidental to the crime in the same way the race and religion of these men has no bearing on what they did. There are sick abusers in every country, race, ethnic group, religion, culture etc and they alone should be blamed for what they did, not their skin colour, nationality or religion. There are white men who fly to the far east to sexually abuse young women and children. Is that because of their race or their culture that makes them look down on other races and children of people of other cultures? Or is it because they think they can get away with it if they abuse innocents in other countries. These men were predators and they preyed on these girls because they were vulnerable and unprotected. There have been stories about grooming gangs in cities like Birmingham that have preyed on teenage Asian girls and by asian here I mean muslim but also sikhs.

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/10/abuse-asian-girls-missed-white-victims

Interesting that these cases dont get even half as much national exposure as the cases of white girls being groomed. Is it because these cases show categorically that "these sexual predators will target any girls who are vulnerable and accessible, regardless of their background, ethnicity or faith."
Not the message that hate mongers want to propagate.

The thing that is most unpalatable about this thread is the way that some are trying to hint that their religion had something to do with their crimes when these men committed some of the worst sins in the Islamic faith. Rape (a crime that would receive the death penalty), pre-marital sex (both men and women are expected to remain virgins until marriage incidentally), adultery (another crime punishable by death whether male or female if convicted), drug-taking and forcing others to take drugs, drinking alcohol and forcing others to drink alcohol, physical abuse, sexual abuse, lying, cheating, etc. These men are hardly going to be held up as examples of good muslims in fact quite the opposite. Im almost certain their families are probably living under terrible shame in their community because of the hideousness of their crimes. There crimes are in no way acceptable to muslims either and are just as disturbing and vile. The crazy justifications that some people are trying to use here just demonstrate the level of hatred you have for others and the equal levels of ignorance you have.

peacefuloptimist · 26/08/2014 22:29

"the old ways are taking a while to die out"

What old ways? Do you think in Pakistan it is acceptable to go around and rape underage girls? My god the level of ignorance in this thread is shocking and Im sure is only going to get worse.

peacefuloptimist · 26/08/2014 22:33

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25412675

Greengrow, sadly there are people in many parts of the world that think child abuse is acceptable and child abusers appear in every ethnic group, race, nationality, culture etc

alemci · 26/08/2014 22:34

to be fair peaceful look at what happens on the buses in India with the girl getting raped.

Beastofburden · 26/08/2014 22:35

Sorry, peaceful that was very badly put. Of course I don't think that. What i Meant was the traditional teaching that women have to be virgins until marriage or they are total sluts, beyond the pale. Which isn't how it is in the UK any longer.

alemci · 26/08/2014 22:38

also criticism of the situation doesn't mean hatred of other cultures and people, more the ineffective practices and red tape that didn't stop it.

JustTheRightBullets · 26/08/2014 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

peacefuloptimist · 26/08/2014 22:44

What do you mean to be fair alemci. How does that story have anything to do with this. It actually proves my point. The rapists were not muslim and India is a predominately Hindu country. What are you trying to say men from the Indian sub-continent in general are more likely to commit these sorts of crimes?

hollie84 · 26/08/2014 22:45

"Political correctness gone mad" is a bit of a handy excuse for the police/social workers/authorities involved - we couldn't do anything or we'd be accused of racism.

Actually there was an attitude that the children brought it upon themselves and were making lifestyle choices. They didn't see them as vulnerable girls. Classism and misogyny.

peacefuloptimist · 26/08/2014 22:48

You have not criticised the ineffective practices and red tape. You and other posters have repeatedly talked about the race and religion of these men implying that it was related to why they committed these crimes.

smellyfishead · 26/08/2014 22:56

reading up on Ruhollah Khomeini, he sounds like he was unhinged!!

JustTheRightBullets · 26/08/2014 22:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MissOtisRegretsMadam · 26/08/2014 22:57

I would put money that the men in Rochdale probably abused young Asian girls too...

They probably did it to anyone they could get access to but girls in their community are probably easier silenced. I now work with families who need support for lots of reasons. I recently worked with a young Asian girl who had been forced to marry at 14 had left due to dv and was now being abused by her family and groomed by a group of men who lived locally. She was taken to a refuge at the other side of the country as when she finally sought help the police were concerned her female cousin may have been sent to Pakistan and murdered after she had been accused of having boyfriends before marriage. She was petrified of going to the police and she only did in the end as she was worried about her daughter living the same life she had.

Men from all backgrounds groom young vulnerable children and teens. When I lived in London their was a lot of young girls being targeted by gangs and used as "battery" girls and passed round gang members or raped by rival gangs...

It happens up and down the country in all communities, cultures, classes whatever you want to call it.

alemci · 26/08/2014 22:57

no I was responding to the comment about Pakistan and rape you made and the bus thing came to mind plus that awful incident about the 2 girls being raped and hung not so long ago in India/Pakistan (late now, can't remember which). they are in the same geographical area and share a history.

why is that so unfair. perhaps western culture is more tolerant of pre-marital sex and it causes conflict and difficulty if the men have to conform to their own cultural expectation

I know it's complicated and there are horrendous grooming crimes irrespective of culture or race.

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