Would you vote to re-join the EU in another referendum?

[GorgeousSpringtime]

Simple question. If there is another referendum to re-join the EU, will you be voting to re-join?

This isn't to have a go at anyone who supported Brexit, or who supported Remain, it's just a quick straw poll. Thank you.

If anyone is wondering, (or cares!) I think I will vote to re-join. (I won't say at this point what I voted for last time...)

If we could go back on the exact deal we had before, very definitely.

I probably wouldn't want to go back on any terms the EU would offer though as I imagine they'd want to punish us for leaving and would make us jump through all sorts of catastrophically expensive hoops. Which I think would be entirely reasonable of them tbh. We should obviously not have left, but I don't think that automatically means we should agree to anything to get back in.

I do also think that the anti-EU feeling would have grown if we were still in and that if we hadn't left when we did we'd still be arguing about it now, and/or we'd have had at least one more referendum which would very likely have voted leave. The EU really isn't doing all that great, and I do think people can be a bit rose-tinted. I strongly believe we belong in the EU, but that's not necessarily an economic conclusion.

If he puts it in his manifesto and then wins a GE, no need for a referendum.

Some countries in the EZ that have higher debt to GDP than we do.

I think the EZ would welcome the worlds fifth largest economy in with open arms to try to shore up the currency.

Whether it would be a good idea for the UK is debatable. Interest rate equivalents would be a lot lower, that would probably lead to a crack up boom for a couple of years after entry, followed by an equally severe bust.

You might hope politicians could manage this sort of thing but recent experience suggests they would just try to ride the wave and then scarper when it all went wrong.

I'm also not sure how they would resolve issues like the Target 2 balances.

It would be a very complex process with no guarantee it would work well for the UK.

We would also surrender our currency control, which is no small thing. Controlling your own currency is a significant part of sovereignty.

Nope...we were paying into the EU the equivalent of 5 smaller EU nations...no wonder they want us back!

You assume I had any sodding money to invest in anything in 2007! It was bloody obvious the markets were about to crash. We had a friend in the stock market telling us as much. We made decisions to safeguard ourselves in the event of a crash. And warned friends who were applying for a northern rock mortgage that they couldnt afford it (friend said "well if we couldn't afford it, the bank wouldn't lend us the money" to which we had an almighty facepalm).

I’d choose to rejoin. No issues switching to the Euro either, not sure why it bothers anyone really

And it was supposed to be the Brexiteers who were stupid. Jeez

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland isn't in any way comparable to Greece.

Well the 10 year bond rates are about the same.

That's one way they are comparable.

Edit : Actually the UK is about 1% higher.

How long would the rejoin negotiations take I wonder, if negotiations commence at all. Maybe the EU will fast track it in a year. Hmmm. I'd say five to ten years. What say you?

Perhaps you would like to read the link I posted which details the criteria for joining the Euro. Our national debt is too high. We do not meet the criteria for joining. You can join the EU and then go 'oh well we will defer' and put out a report planning how you intend to meet the criteria. The Czech Republic is in a position where they will not meet it for years so have stopped even producing these reports!

What happened to Greece is a good reason why we wouldn't be allowed to join the Euro. The fact that certain countries in the Euro have very high national debt ATM isn't good for them. France are in a dreadful position and that has massive implications for other Euro countries without this level of debt. Croatia has got completely fucked by joining the Euro because it has made it incredibly difficult for them to set their own economic conditions - they are at the mercy of the European central bank. As a rule the Euro is better for northern European countries but dreadful for Eastern and Southern European countries.

It would be nice if people actually bothered to understand the problem and looked some of this up before spouting about how good and how welcome we would be to join the Euro with our current economic close to meltdown.

We are dangerously close to needing a debt bailout but you wouldn't know this from a lot of the mass media. Have a good dig around and there's some very reputable sources sounding a massive klaxon that we have a very very big problem with national debt and government bonds right now. Indeed when Burnham and Healey got their new shiny jobs and were briefed on the situation they had a bit of a reality check about their grand idea and the situation hasn't been improving. They are supposed to be writing a budget ATM but tbh with how quickly the market is currently moving their sums are going out of date the following week. Trust me, the budget is going to open up a massive can of worms especially if they screw the pooch.

We are currently on a knife edge.

But he'll what do I know. I know nothing being im not on a tropical island. The fact that 0 x 4045793 still equals Zero is a sum that lots of people can't compute.

As it stands there's a hell of a lot of people making gambles on what happens next - some will get it right, but lots are going to get it very wrong too. Meanwhile normal people are going to get caught up in the car crash if we are not very careful.

I don't think there is anywhere near enough comprehension of the UK's financial position right now.

Yes. Coming out was a big mistake. I felt at the time that eventually we'll rejoin but on much less favourable terms.

Well if it's being done properly, yes we should take at least five years to negotiate...

Theres a lot of people here who already think it'd be like flipping a switch back to our previous position and that deeply troubles me.

Much of Europe is in a worse financial position than we are, particularly France, so no.

The same pp has also stressed that's in theory. Sweden and Denmark don't look like joining anytime soon, and there's always room for formal or informal carve-outs.

No. We've had a referendum so another one fills me with horror. Do we need another few years of instability and the EU becoming the only thing talked about in Parliament. There will still be plenty of people who object to rejoining. We've got plenty of problems we don't need to be taking on new ones to solve unnecessarily.

The EUs economies are doing worse than ours so they aren't a solution to our economic woes. It won't benefit us to rejoin. Brexit has not caused the economy to tank. Covid and too much spending did.

The EU is not the same as when we left. The ADF is increasing its power in Germany and there could conceivably be Marine le Pen running France. We are once against out of synch with the politics of the EU.

We went through all 8 options of leaving the EU/staying in the customs market etc and Parliament voted on them then in a tortuous process. Labour voted down Theresa May's deal which seems similar to the one being talked about now.

We will have very punitive terms to go back in. As with any dealing we have with the EU. Fair enough but why put ourselves through it if we don't have to. Which we don't.

Why do we have British Exceptionalism here?

Can we have an explanation of this please? You know one which doesn't sound like British Exceptionalism that Leavers were grossly guilty of.

We have had an IMF bailout before. This isn't something that is unprecedented.

Do you want to think about that possibility cos I sure as hell don't because that would involve begging and adhering to terms and conditions which are in mine or your interests and would probably involve having to do a lot of bootlicking to the Orange One.

Like seriously. Reality check please. Preferably before it's too late and we all suddenly become experts on MN about the subject.

I don't say this shit because I'm an nutter.

There is also the majority of people who identify with neither.

People talk a lot about our debt crisis, but France is in a much worse position than us.

Our debt/GDP ratio stands at 94% whereas France’s stands at 116%.

In addition, having our own currency, we can always print GBP to pay off debt. Now this has significant negative consequences but is better than the alternative that France are in right now.

They can’t print Euros and would need to rely on a (legally dubious) ECB rescue, as happened in the last Eurozone crisis.

Ultimately, in a real bond crisis, the question gets asked whether the richer EU countries are prepared to bail out the ones in crisis. Last Eurozone crisis some fairly choice words were exchanged between Greece (back to WW2) and Germany (give us some islands) before the ECB stabilised the situation.

The EU (kind of) cleverly avoids the issue of whether it is a federation or a trading block, but crises starkly show it is a problem.

Which is why joining single market (friction free trade, freedom of movement) is much better than rejoining the EU.

I think the EU would tell the UK to do one.
If you could get the farmers on board, that may help the case a bit. They ( on the whole ) voted leave.
I wonder how they feel about it all now? Are they any better or worse off since leaving ?

It would depends on the t&c, we wouldn't get the same deal we had the first time around.

Opening up the possibility of opt outs re the Euro etc. in any rejoining negotiations would I think depend on how anxious EU is to have UK back. I doubt it will be at any price despite the hubris evident on this thread. Leaving and rejoining to pre Brexit status is an incentive to other members to bail out safe in the knowledge that they could rejoin whenever they want as if it never happened. Not the right signal I'd say.

But that's what negotiations are for.

It isn't the Euro itself that bothers me its that being in the single currency means much of our financial policy like interest rates would be set by the ECB.

I doubt they would let us back in with a good deal somehow!

I am very firmly a centrist. I think there's far too much crap from every political party ATM and it is beyond depressing.

Too many politicians who don't know basic things like how to make law and how parliament works for starters. And the limits of parliamentary sovereignty. And that Supply Chains are Important. We seem to have a massive problem with understanding them.

Again you'd think after ten years more people would have worked this out.

But no.