Headteachers use open days to dissuade 'undesirable' families.

[Diamondsgreen]

I've worked in schools for a long time. The challenging schools used open evening to try and persuade families they wanted their DC to attend - empty places cost money and add even more challenge to the school.

However, in every one of the "good", oversubscribed schools the HT used them to put off families they didn't like the look/feel of.

E.g. in a small infant school the HT insisted on doing all the tours herself. Then at any mention of SEND would be most unethusiastic about how the school might be able to meet the child's needs, even suggesting other schools locally who might be better placed to do it.

A Grammar school made a big deal of all the expensive trips and extra curricular activities, you may think to show depth in their offer, but the strategy was to put off less afuulent families.

The one doing the rounds currently is behaviour. The school's (often Trust's) behaviour policy is designed to create a positive learning environment, but the school won't suit pupils or families who will challenge that....

Sensible management or wholly unethical?

A child whose needs are challenging to meet does not equate to not following the behaviour policy/the child being badly behaved.

One of my younger children attends a school there there’s a high level of Sen. It’s well known that her year group alone is 70% SEN.

but looking back at the school tours. There was a real focus on how they support SEN. I know that’s why we chose the school.

we have been through 5 different primary schools.

One of mine, his year group was basically a sibling intake year. But it’s an oversubscribed school usually. The following year they shut 1 class for reception intake. Because it became well known that there is a high percentage of siblings. They didn’t get the applications they usually do which meant they went from typically having 3 classes of 29. They admitted 2 classes of 15. It’s 4 years on now and they are back to being oversubscribed

I have definitely seen this. Three of mine are G&T with one still in school. At every single VIth form open evening for the older two we got the hard sell, how they could virtually guarantee Oxbridge entrance with their results, the whole spiel.

DD2 is an artist, photographer and film maker and went to Plymouth school of art much to her VIth forms disappointment. DD3 was put right off and went to the local college, smashed her results and went to an RG uni but specifically didnt want to go to Oxbridge after the hard sell. DD3.....hers is this thursday so we will see what happens but given her current STEM results I am expecting another hard sell.

Conversely, DD1 who was average for everything, by her own admission, went to college worked damned hard, graduated with a 2:1 and is now an HCP. School couldnt have been less interested in keeping her for VIth form but she outperformed some of her friends who were courted for it by miles.

Not all schools are able to meet the needs of SEN children and that doesn’t make them shit. It just means they aren’t designed for SEN children.

Well quite but no head is going to say ‘ADHD can you go elsewhere please!’

I have a friend with a little boy who you can’t help but love; he is seven and certainly not a behavioural problem. But he is non verbal, not toilet trained and I can’t honestly see how they can really teach or assess him. I think he largely does his own thing.

I am talking about badly behaved children; ‘challenging’ is often polite shorthand for badly behaved in teaching.

Erm, are any SEN?

Maybe that little boy needs a SEN school or a school who can provide a TA for him.

Of course heads can’t openly say ‘no ADHD’ but I wonder how many think it!

He has a TA, but what can she do, realistically? A special school would better meet his needs but if one isn’t available or if the parents are resistant it’s very difficult to make that transition. No easy answers.

Oddly enough, yes! Two of the three have ASD.

ETA I would add that I personally consider G&T to be a SEN in its own right, but I suspect that providing the school with outstanding results to brag about makes dealing with their quirks rather easier.

The secondary school my DC are at is over-subscribed (it continually gets really good GCSE results - because it puts in the effort with extra revision sessions etc.) and also has a particularly behaviour policy which it is very open about. But it doesn’t necessarily seem to work. . I don’t understand the parents who decide to send their DC there, and THEN complain about the strict no-phone policy, quantity of homework and Saturday lessons. There is an alternative under-subscribed school a street away where the children are allowed phones, and there is less homework and no Saturday school. But they don’t want to send their DC there because the results are poorer. (Somehow, they’re unable to see the correlation.) I feel sorry for the staff having to deal with their complaints - and they do things like state that X or Y won’t be coming to Saturday lessons, or doing the homework, etc. etc.

sensible management. It avoids problems for both sides further down the line.

Completely agree here.
Dd2 went to a lovely infant school. She has SEN her needs were met and she thrived there.

DS1 came along 3 years later. By middle of September was on 1 hour a day time table. Following September he was out of school. Now he’s in a small SEN school and thriving.

the infant school wasn’t shit. They just wasn’t able to cater for my sons needs and his behavioural challenges. They did what they could but he needed provisions they couldn’t offer him. That 1 hour a day had him with 2 members of staff to him. Some days it took 4 members of staff to manage a little 5 year old boy for a hour.

we didn’t choose it for DD3. While her needs are very different to DS1, we felt they would likely have her on a reduced timetable because developmentally she was 2 years old if we are being generous. They just didn’t have the resources we felt that would benefit her.

realistically dd2 her SEN needs are significantly less then her siblings in terms of educationally. That’s why the school were able to support her so well.

@frozendaisy Our teens had a short spell at a dreadful school where the feral kids of the gobbiest parents ruled the school (I wish I was joking).

There are sadly too many schools like this nowadays. Parents and pupils with no respect yet are entitled.

Yes, yes it is perfectly fine. Schools do have a duty of care towards their staff and their current pupils who want to learn, and need to gain their GCSEs for their life outcomes.

Im a teacher and I don't like working at strict schools. Every class was silent during English lessons, why? I want my child talking, collaborating and enjoying his education. I asked about after school club provision and was only met with all the ways that they manage behaviour. I don't think that's great at all.

They might be concerned about their staff and needing to manage poor behaviour, as well as (and importantly) the learning of other pupils. That’s valid. Not all about league tables.

The government want to reduce the proportion of children taught outside of mainstream schools starting in 2030.

gov wants to reduce the number of children with echps by replacing them with ‘packages of support’. So that they can save money by educating SEND kids in mainstream schools.

gov is also looking at ways to prevent schools from avoiding taking SEND kids

All parents should support education.

Charities concerned about gov plans to restrict children’s rights to echp and move as many SEND kids as possible into mainstream schools include
IPSEA
the National Autistic Society
and the Disabled Children’s Partnership

It's rarely that simple. The government are also determined to force more and more SEND children into mainstream, even those who would be more suitable for special school.

If anyone here is concerned about their child losing their echp and other legal rights there is a petition on the government website they can sign to ensure MPs debate the proposed reforms

Yes they should but a significant minority don't.

Yes and having more SEND children in mainstream schools will have consequences for all children not just those with SEND.

My sons school is so over subscribed they don’t do an open evening just a tour and a meeting during the school day, for parents who are thinking of applying.

The premise of the meeting was ‘these are our rules, follow them, be on board with us or don’t apply’

We were specifically told that there are 180 places available, and they already had 762 application.

They are great over all. Very inclusive but very strict. Not the school for parents who think that uniform infractions shouldn’t apply to their children. But then they are a state school with results on parr with local grammar schools.