Headteachers use open days to dissuade 'undesirable' families.

[Diamondsgreen]

I've worked in schools for a long time. The challenging schools used open evening to try and persuade families they wanted their DC to attend - empty places cost money and add even more challenge to the school.

However, in every one of the "good", oversubscribed schools the HT used them to put off families they didn't like the look/feel of.

E.g. in a small infant school the HT insisted on doing all the tours herself. Then at any mention of SEND would be most unethusiastic about how the school might be able to meet the child's needs, even suggesting other schools locally who might be better placed to do it.

A Grammar school made a big deal of all the expensive trips and extra curricular activities, you may think to show depth in their offer, but the strategy was to put off less afuulent families.

The one doing the rounds currently is behaviour. The school's (often Trust's) behaviour policy is designed to create a positive learning environment, but the school won't suit pupils or families who will challenge that....

Sensible management or wholly unethical?

A comprehensive near me used to tell prospective parents that SEND provision is better at another local comprehensive to try and divert SEND kids away from themselves. There was no reason for that to be the case. If the other local comp had tried the same trick parents would have felt their kids weren't wanted anywhere

Yes, but when that's due a deliberate policy of not meeting the needs of some groups?

This was going on, when my DC were in primary/secondary schools over 25 years ago. Heads tried to put off parents of children with SEND, by telling them another school nearby was better at SEN. The trouble is parents cannot be in two places at once, by picking siblings up from different primary schools in particular, all because one head is concerned about the league tables.

They might be trying to put the parents off.
But also really might be unable to take any more children who have SEN. And know they cannot manage any more.

I don't think there a school in England that can easily absorb another child with SEND. It will always impact on the rest of the school and these schools already have less than their "share".

There’s a lot of ground between say not making eye contact with a teacher enough leading to isolation and a school which allows children to verbally abuse teachers. Where does your school sit? People have different views of what strictness means and many schools seen by some as strict are far more lenient than others.

Interesting. When I looked at high schools the undersubscribed one that doesn’t have a great reputation were falling over themselves to tell us how well they could support DD, the one that has a great reputation for SEND did seem to be trying to put us off but did say their ARP would suit better, and the super strict one made it clear they’d make minimal adjustments, even for kids in their ARP. Speaking to current parents I know it seems first school is all talk, second is great but words got round and they get more than their fair share of SEND children, third is only good if you have a quite, compliant child who doesn’t get anxious.

Even more interesting, thanks.
OK well I do know what it is but it made me think of the book Chums: How A Tiny Caste of Oxford Tories Took Over The UK by Simon Kupar. Which was both fascinating and rather terrifying. I wonder if that makes me desirable to this school or not.

It was also very exam results and prestigious alumni heavy, with reference to someone appearing in a Matthew Bourne production. So yes, now you say it OP I can see what they were up to. Thanks!

As a parent of send children - been there done that. Anyone who thinks heads do this because they have the child's best interests at heart are very, very, naive.

I knew enough teachers, TA's and childminders before my dc even started school to know this. It's all about the OFSTED rating.

My FIL is a long retired teacher and he always spoke of the days he was just able to focus on the pupils.

It's wrong.

I'd have thought parents who have the worst behaved children generally don't bother to attend open evenings? Teacher friends say bad parents tend to see school as free babysitters, and they're not going to give up any time to go in for open/parent evenings.
And surely they'd be more likely not to want children who are going to physically attack others, regardless of SEND status? Many SEND parents are amazing and their children are brilliantly behaved, plus doubtless many teachers and heads have children with additional needs, and like all of us, want them supported and welcomed.

My exH was a headsteacher and this has happened for years

It's not just about the pupils either; if faced with parents who are clearly going to be impossible you can hardly blame them for wanting to dodge a bullet, especially when many schools have enough of those already

Yes it's a way desirable over subscribed schools manipulate their intake so they can be more desirable. They basically make the job easier for themselves so they should get better results, whilst the other schools who have spaces have to be less choosy, which makes them "worse".

We've seen it in my current school. There is one year group where a big scandal hit the school during application time. It blew over and subsequent years have been full, but that year, we didn't make PAN, which meant the school was forced to take anyone who wanted to come. Their GCSE results were the lowest the school has ever had, by some distance. Did we suddenly become a bad school with ill discipline and poor teaching, just for that year?

The head is quite open that he accepts in year applications from high achieving pupils that put us slightly over PAN, specifically to make him less "vulnerable" to children moving schools for less than positive reasons.

Does anyone think that?

Headteachers would
do it because they have the best interests of their staff and existing pupils at heart, not those of a prospective student who still had other schooling options.

I don’t know where our youngster’s school sits, he only attended this one.

Quite strict I think, the Head does expel (which was vital after the previous school). It has a great pastoral and inter grated SEND department, but is not quite zero tolerance, but much more towards that for behaviour towards other pupils and staff.

So not making eye contact wouldn’t be a problem, having staggered start times, these things are reasonable adjustments. But he makes it clear he has 1500 pupils who all matter.

And he will ban parents from the grounds who abuse reception staff.

And expel pupils who are violent.

unethical, just as expensive uniforms are

And he makes all this clear during open days

It’s an outstanding school, that streams all subjects (even humanities) if your child works at/towards 4/5 grades they need a different pace to the 6/7/8/9 grades. One mum suggested they got rid of streaming and he just said “no”

He’s lovely, completely dedicated to his pupils and staff, forward thinking with education but standards in behaviour for both pupils, parents and staff is non-negotiable.

He makes all this perfectly clear.

What more do parents want?

It works, it’s an outstanding, oversubscribed school. And non-selective, with a huge wait list. It has a catchment if you aren’t in catchment you have no chance.

It’s an inclusive, thriving secondary. So he must be doing something right.

@frozendaisythank you. It sounds great.

It's not morally best or ethical, but these private and grammar schools do not want to deal with SEN. A child screaming or causing havoc in a classroom is not tolerated. As an example, even if a child is autistic and doesn't have behavioural problems, they may cause problems in future as they grow up.

A lot of parents who want to go private school pay for the privilege to do so.

A lot of parents who want their dc to go grammar school pay for tutors, pay for books and extra curricular activities. They use their money to get what they want.

Let's imagine a wealthy parent sent their child to private school, but one child is occupying the teachers attention due to SEN. What do you think that parent will do? Oh, pull their child out and badmouth the school to their likewise wealthy friends.

I don't completely agree with it, but children's behaviour in state school is abysmal at best due to gentle parenting.

It is but behaviour is non-negotiable.

More children thrive when they don’t feel threatened - SEN or NON-SEN

I had a headteacher literally slam the door to the school’s ARP in my face, having let another parent go in, stating to me that it was only for children with EHCPs. If she’d taken notice of the very extensive information I’d provided about my son’s disabilities when phoning to ask for a tour, she’d have known that he was in the process of getting one.

In contrast, the headteacher of another local school welcomed us and assured me that their SEN provision was brilliant. DS got a place there. Unfortunately it turned out that too many of the teachers had no interest in SEN and no understanding of autism.

Shocking if true. Plenty of kids from less affluent upbringings are hardworking, resilient and capable. I’m very glad we don’t have this in Scotland. Here the majority just go to catchment schools and the head has no say in who attends. Slightly different situation for non-catchment but they certainly have to show good reasons to turn you down.

At youngster’s school his best mate, who’s autistic, got headteacher’s award last summer, not because of his academic achievements but for overcoming difficulties and his general personality and influence around school and to others

another thriving autistic pupil seems to run the school’s 3D printer (you have to contribute a small amount for materials if you want it for personal use) for some reason (that has never fully been explained adequately) our son gets his stuff printed for free (again friendship I presume)

there are schools that are working

this school regularly gets visited by big wigs in education as an example of how to do things - I know this because our one gets dragged around to meet them (he was on the roof one time showing off the solar panels)

so hopefully whatever they are doing is being shared around

I worked in a school where the Head was very honest with parents about what SEND provision she was able to provide.
The school had a lot of open plan classrooms and no quiet areas.
Another school, down the road, had more staff and more money and their SEND provision was far superior to ours because they were considered to be in a deprived area but parents just didn’t want to consider it.

I'm not saying these school let down SEND pupilsnonce they're in. The infant school I mentioned had an excellent SENDCo and the provision was actually very good, they just didn't want many to deal with, and would put off those they could.