Headteachers use open days to dissuade 'undesirable' families.

[Diamondsgreen]

I've worked in schools for a long time. The challenging schools used open evening to try and persuade families they wanted their DC to attend - empty places cost money and add even more challenge to the school.

However, in every one of the "good", oversubscribed schools the HT used them to put off families they didn't like the look/feel of.

E.g. in a small infant school the HT insisted on doing all the tours herself. Then at any mention of SEND would be most unethusiastic about how the school might be able to meet the child's needs, even suggesting other schools locally who might be better placed to do it.

A Grammar school made a big deal of all the expensive trips and extra curricular activities, you may think to show depth in their offer, but the strategy was to put off less afuulent families.

The one doing the rounds currently is behaviour. The school's (often Trust's) behaviour policy is designed to create a positive learning environment, but the school won't suit pupils or families who will challenge that....

Sensible management or wholly unethical?

Oh well as long as they have other schooling options it's perfectly fine then!

I'm don't know of a school that doesn't accommodate SEND pupils. I have some sympathy with HT dealing with pupils with behavioural problems as many of them stem from their families who are even harder to deal with. One school i know of, has had a history of terrible pupils behaviour but the HT and management board is turning it around with strict new protocols. Unsurprisingly, some parents are howling but most are very supportive.

It isn’t ethical but by the same token I prefer my kids not to be ignored in favour of send kids and I prefer not to be ignored in favour of send kids’ mums - so was fully supportive of the head telling the send mums when they complained (as they always did, at length) that there were other schools in the area if they weren’t happy with this one’s offering.

I often think it would be great if send all had to go to special school, then my kids might have got a look-in.

😂That’s a brilliant tactic! If rather cruel.

But I think it might be about being realistic about where a child can thrive

And realistically what amount of resources can be made available

to be honest we have very good special schools in the area that cater for non-academic SEN pupils, which means the secondary schools around can cater for the more academic SEN pupils in a setting more suited

And that’s probably what is brought up with the big wig visitors

and open day (which is this evening as youngster is floating around doing something) will explain expectations in order for your child to remain in this school
and it goes on usual catchment (which might be luck) but it’s not surrounded by huge leafy detached, it’s mixed estates of a variety of social-economic and ethnic backgrounds

if your child has behavioural problems, is derogative, has no interest in learning, this school won’t work
one child decided to make dreadful racist remarks towards another in the football club changing room - that is not tolerated - it’s not just SEND children who need protection - it can just be girls sometimes.

And I think this school doesn’t overlook all the other issues not just around SEND needs. Because schools shouldn’t. The SEND pupils who attend are part of the body of the school, no it won’t work for all SEND pupils but it works for many and that’s much better than some

plus you have to be in catchment which isn’t huge and it’s a fairly new estate (main catchment) with many young families plus some surrounding more established roads, that’s it.

It’s a fairly new school, it had no ofsted rating when we applied, we took a huge gamble, but boy did it pay off (well it did for ours but he’s not SEN, and a top grade pupil, but even so another school could’ve easily broken him, previous one had a good try)

Thank you for the thread. I'll come back later and post regarding my DC, one send, one not.

I don’t think it’s league tables as much as resources - friend is a TA who was employed to help with small groups in maths and english but now has her hands full with three pupils who should all have a one to one. She has no time to do anything effectively because she’s trying to do three people’s jobs.

I suppose this is what happens when schools are judged on ofsted ratings and exam grade, they want the best behaved, most able pupils who won’t require any additional resources, and the parents who are going to support education.

I wonder how much detail she gave to the head for them to be able to make such a judgement though.

If you think every head is doing this purely out of concern for the child, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Because they are in a position to choose so obviously they are not going to accept kids who have behavioural problems that will disrupt everyone else's learning, especially when the other families are paying through the teeth for the privilege.

Independent schools are just that: independent of the state and therefore independent from state funded resources for SEND pupils. If a pupil's needs are significant and they need 1:1 support then the family has to pay for that on top of fees which most people are unable to manage.

The school is just being honest about the reality of choosing this path.

Going into primary, we were shown by a SENCO, who made it clear my DS wasnt welcome. We sent him to a different school, with a lower ofsted, he did well.

Secondary school has been a different matter...

Mmm...I think it's debatable. I had DD2 out of school before she had her ASD dx. The head teacher of one school said "Please don't bring her here. You'll have all the evidence you'll need within about 3 weeks but honestly, the class I have a space in could have 5 more adults in it and it still wouldn't be enough. It would be awful for her."

I was very grateful that he was brave enough to say it.

The HT at our primary used to ask parents who he was showing around: "And who will be picking up? We do like to see mums at the gate"!

He nearly died a death when my family turned up: lesbian mothers, one from Jamaica, with jobs. Throughout the years my kids were there, I saw him being very friendly to other parents, but he never once met my eyes. Not even when I had a meeting with him.

That aside, I do have quite strong views about non-selective state schools being selective on the sly. They are supposed to be there for the whole community, and to help carry the burden of disruptive kids not palm it all off to the most under subscribed schools.

Schools are in a vicious cycle when they have a great SENCo… they get a good reputation and then lots of Sen children, but the system is so broken they can’t cope with too many… even though the SENCo is working unhealthy hours to try to still be a great SENCo. So to be great for some Sen kids they need to put some others off attending…

My middle child’s school will try and reject most Sen pupils. Maybe two per year will they take.

And yes to trips we have been back two weeks and already been tapped up £130 for trips.

Their open evening mentions nothing about Sen and they don’t have the Sen lead out to chat to either.

They are very picky for any school joiner that doesn’t start at the start of the first school year as the council don’t place after the first years intake and will interview the students themselves as well as the family to then accept or reject them.

A Grammar school made a big deal of all the expensive trips and extra curricular activities, you may think to show depth in their offer, but the strategy was to put off less affluent families.

Bit of an assumption there.

DS is at a grammar and the school is fantastic for kids on free school meals. They are open about these kids being at the front of the queue for opportunities and actively fund trips/kits etc as much as possible.

That wasn't brave. It was unprofessional and not necessarily true

Oh absolutely. I would be happy to name and shame those schools that behaved that way towards us. DS had absolutely no behavioural difficulties whatsoever, above average IQ and was able to contribute to the life of the school in many ways - but he was profoundly dyslexic and did need learning support. We had SENCos go out of their way to point out how unsuitable their school would be for him; one well known independent school made a point of saying that they would refuse to make any reasonable adjustments at all. It was quite shocking that they would be so open about this when talking about a disabled child - but at least it was very clear where we stood.

I went to a tour today and I think you're right. I know people who work at the school and love it. The entire tour was about how strict they are on behaviour and how pushy they are with maths and English. I wondered why but this makes sense! They only want the parents who will support this.

The point is that the heads have decided
that their schools don’t suit children with additional needs, which is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and ensures that children with high needs remain someone else’s ’problem’. This is just wrong. If the state’s educational philosophy is that children with SEN should be accommodated in mainstream schools, then schools need to bear this additional resource burden equally.

if they are oversubscribed then why should they not choose those who would be the best fit . Loads of SEN kids are very disruptive and spoil the learning experience of other kids. It’s not their fault but neither is it the fault of the majority of the class

for not lying and not trying to encourage people to put children in a place that is not suitable for their needs? Yes, what a bitch indeed.

You'd think parents would want a school which is the best environment for their child? Which is what open days are for?

All private schools have done this for years, entrance exams, criteria for sporty types etc.

Ex teacher

there has been a big focus on oracy - so speaking - since Covid as many kids either did not gain speaking skills or lost what they had.

we had to re start with teaching how to talk in pairs and how to work together in groups.