Headteachers use open days to dissuade 'undesirable' families.

[Diamondsgreen]

I've worked in schools for a long time. The challenging schools used open evening to try and persuade families they wanted their DC to attend - empty places cost money and add even more challenge to the school.

However, in every one of the "good", oversubscribed schools the HT used them to put off families they didn't like the look/feel of.

E.g. in a small infant school the HT insisted on doing all the tours herself. Then at any mention of SEND would be most unethusiastic about how the school might be able to meet the child's needs, even suggesting other schools locally who might be better placed to do it.

A Grammar school made a big deal of all the expensive trips and extra curricular activities, you may think to show depth in their offer, but the strategy was to put off less afuulent families.

The one doing the rounds currently is behaviour. The school's (often Trust's) behaviour policy is designed to create a positive learning environment, but the school won't suit pupils or families who will challenge that....

Sensible management or wholly unethical?

And why would having a send child in class stop anyone learning or gaining GCSEs?

Including even more teachers leaving the profession because they spend more time trying to manage behaviour they are not trained to manage instead of actually teaching.

This is incredibly naive

Very significant minority, which has increased over the past 20 years or so. The result is abysmal behaviour and parents who don’t care or condone it.

I'm sure this does happen. But schools are struggling, you can't honestly expect them to encourage more challenging pupils to join.

Precisely. It isn’t fair on teachers nor the pupils.

If their behaviour is difficult, of course it will.

The reforms the gov want to bring are going to explicitly look at closing the loopholes schools use to refuse SEND kids - by giving councils more control over schools. That way they can get more SEND kids in mainstream schools and save councils the costs of doing an ECHP.

One size does not fit all - that’s why lots of parents visit schools to see if they’re a good fit for their children / vice versa
there should be the option for all children to get a good education regardless of the school theyre at

Are you serious?!

Imagine putting a 15 year old ND lad into a class where he doesnt have the right support. He becomes unsettled and goes into meltdown because he cant cope. Its not his fault, but neither is it the fault of anyone else. Physically he is a grown man and can do a serious amount of damage to himself and others. Other students could be hurt and at the very least the whole lesson is thrown to the wall as most of the time is spent dealing with his meltdown.

Multiply that by several kids per year and the hardest working kid in the world is going to struggle to pass their GCSEs. Thats why special provision is essential instead of hammering square pegs into round holes and then wondering why it is a disaster for all concerned.

I’m a teacher too.

A school that is on top of behaviour doesn’t automatically mean a school where students are silent in lessons. Good behaviour and strong engagement in lessons often
go together.

Sounds quite like ours but with a smaller intake and very over subscribed think 80 a year and over 500 applications.

If you want in you put your best foot forward and hope you get the space and be prepared to be asked to leave if you start causing trouble.

It’s why it’s so desired by Sen parents as well but they know their school and its current cohort and what they can handle so they reject a lot of children with sen and as said if you try a in year move expect at least two interviews even if they have space and still possible rejection. Council have zero authority for applications after year 7.

I think pp's point is that SEND doesn't always mean behavioural issues, it doesn't always mean ND either.

So whilst some SEND children obviously require specialist provision and struggling with behaviour because they are in the wrong setting, some SEND children do well in mainstream with extra support and don't always have behavioural problems.

We absolutely shouldn't force SEND children into mainstream who very clearly don't belong there but the assumption that SEND = badly behaved when SEND covers such a wide and varied range of extra needs isn't helpful either.

They should, but not all do.

This could well change with the gov Wellbeing and Schools Act which will give councils more powers to force academies to accept pupils (at the moment you are right councils have limited powers over the pupils admitted to academies)

under the current set up schools can use strict rules around behaviour uniform etc. to reduce risk of getting potentially disruptive pupils

In terms of the current law in England, exceptional ability is not considered a special educational need. There’s case law on that. Of course, some might have SEN and have exceptional ability.

My send children have never caused any disruption in class. Why are you assuming all children with send do so? The usual ignorance around send I suppose.

Same can be said for non send children.

The problem is schools aren’t funded or equipped to look after the number of SEND kids who need it.

The problem is schools are completely overwhelmed with increasingly complex SEND needs.

So when a parent comes for a tour and tells you about their child's needs you have a duty to be honest about what you can actually provide...your child will be in mainstream classroom and no we do not have a 'spare' member of staff to provide them with 1-1.

If you're super welcoming and enthusiastic the words spreads that you're 'great with SEND' and more children come. The child with high needs that cannot access the provision has a detrimental impact on every child in the school. Your staff retention also goes to shit because teachers are spread so thin that they cannot meet needs, so then you get all the escalating behaviours and parents complaining etc, etc.

It's a complete mess.

A lot of this is to weed out the pain in the arse parents - we sat in several open day talks being told how much commitment the school expected - support for homework, attendance at sports fixtures and concerts etc etc. You could see lots of parents thinking ‘Fuck this, let’s go to the other school down the road - who cares if it’s results are rubbish!’

all state funded schools are going to be affected by gov plans to get more SEND kids in mainstream and give councils more control over academies to prevent them from managing out kids who might not on the face of it be a good fit for their school

And as a result, more children who want to learn and engage with education will be failed.

NRTFT but it was Keir Starmer who spoke a lot about oracy, not the Tories.

One trust near us 100% tries to put off parents / families they don’t want. Their High schools are uber strict and definite pitch to a certain mind frame and put off those wanting a more rounded education with more options for all eg less academic DC