Headteachers use open days to dissuade 'undesirable' families.

[Diamondsgreen]

I've worked in schools for a long time. The challenging schools used open evening to try and persuade families they wanted their DC to attend - empty places cost money and add even more challenge to the school.

However, in every one of the "good", oversubscribed schools the HT used them to put off families they didn't like the look/feel of.

E.g. in a small infant school the HT insisted on doing all the tours herself. Then at any mention of SEND would be most unethusiastic about how the school might be able to meet the child's needs, even suggesting other schools locally who might be better placed to do it.

A Grammar school made a big deal of all the expensive trips and extra curricular activities, you may think to show depth in their offer, but the strategy was to put off less afuulent families.

The one doing the rounds currently is behaviour. The school's (often Trust's) behaviour policy is designed to create a positive learning environment, but the school won't suit pupils or families who will challenge that....

Sensible management or wholly unethical?

A Grammar school made a big deal of all the expensive trips and extra curricular activities, you may think to show depth in their offer, but the strategy was to put off less affluent families

One of our local secondarys went through a period of hardly offering any school trips in order to be inclusive, I think a lot of parents must have complained because they've gone back to offering trips.

Different schools will suit different DC. The secondary school I think will suit DS1 is a bit marmite locally - it has a bit of a reputation for being strict/old fashioned but I think DS1 will do better with structure/clear expectations.

"decided" or simply KNOWS their school better, their current intake and the resources they have , and likely already spread thin?

f the state’s educational philosophy is that children with SEN should be accommodated in mainstream schools then the state should provide the school with the right budget/ resources to to work with.
You are blaming the wrong body here.

My DD had undiagnosed sen up to year 8. She has an IQ of 163. At year 8 they wanted shot of her, outstanding school, posh southern market town. She was a school refuser. For good reason as we found out later.
She passed a hotly contested scholarship at a private girls school (50% discount). She asked for single sex and at that point we didn't know she'd been sexually assaulted. Every girl had a wellness 1to1 every week and then we discovered the abuse and her reluctance to be in school. Her previous school had suggested I move her or she'd be expelled! They refused to investigate the attack at a later date although I had witnesses. Her brother had attended before her and was a star pupil. Outstanding my arse!

So after just over a year as the "scholarship girl pony' they decided she was SEN and couldn't accommodate her. The truth was she has PTSD from the attempted rape and needed support not expelling.
We saw 22 schools and nobody wanted her because she would cry at each interview. One in the Cotswolds (recently closed) expressed an opinion she'd asked for the attack and she may be a distraction (slapper) for other pupils. Eton alumni, the fucker and his socks.
We sent her to the 'in special measures' comp because that's what she asked for. They were bloody fantastic. They wanted her because she was polite and clever. She got 8 GCSEs. She then went to a sixth form (the previous school finished at 16) with 42 nationalities. It was the making of her. I've written before how she hated uniform but both her male head teachers said 'if I can see through it, up it, or down it, you're not wearing it'. She laughed and stuck to the rules. She had a pretty difficult teenage years but she's now a trainee clinician. Dr Dorothy at some point. But nobody wanted her. Was she difficult? Probably. But you know her favourite teachers were old school who praised her when she got something right. Her SEN is a communication difficulty and her cousin is fully autistic but he's a happy chap and now doing his degree in computer science. I appreciate asd is variable but we write young people off too early. My brother is dyslexic but has had a huge career in the MET and other public service. The difference I agree can be involved parents.
I wouldn't wish the behaviour of some teachers on another pupil. My daughter was bullied by one particularly nasty head of year but I think there should be more special schools including those for semh. If I ever get some big bucks I'd open a few! Our children deserve better.

Very true in my recent experience.

2 open days for my disabled son starting high school next year, one is well known for SEND needs and they couldn't be more welcoming but the other one is on paper the 'better' school, more academic etc and they spent the entire time trying to put us off, just not interested in my son at all.

I think it’s often less about the kids themselves and more about the parents. I completely understand why but a lot of parents with SEN children have unrealistic expectations and will take up a lot of time in complaints etc. Not a popular view I know sorry.

OP, what do you do when you see this behaviour? Are you an active bystander or do you ignore it and hope someone braver than you says something?

That the school is strict on behaviour is probably the reason why the staff love to work there. They will feel well supported by both SLT and parents, which will make all the difference to their experiences and the energy they are able to provide for their pupils. Why wouldn’t the school try to maintain that as far as possible by avoiding the difficult parents who aren’t on top of their children’s behaviour?

This is a real issue. My head complains how particular local schools do this to put off pupils applying, then my school and some others are really positive and then we have more than average send and they have much lower than average send which does have issues. We do surveys of new parents and so many mention how the head at other school suggested ours might meet need better and how they couldnt do x,yz that we do. They absolutely can and do so for thier pupils.

Totally unethical but a sadly inevitable product of the current accountability system and inspection regime.

I toured a school recently that were saying “this school will only suit families who will back up our (draconian) sanctions no matter what your child says”.

i don’t think I could get on board with that, as it’s not a relationship I want with my kids. but the thing is not everyone has a choice of school. This is our nearest school and the other catchment school is oversubscribed- we may be too far to get a place.

I don’t have a comment on SEND apart from that a child with SEND is not necessarily disruptive.

I can understand heads wanting to put off disruptive pupils. So they talk about how they have a zero tolerance for uniform infractions, extremely strong discipline and lots of homework (say). Whether this puts off disruptive parents, it’s hard to say.

One friend went to visit a local senior school and the head kept saying things like “If you aren’t interested in music, don’t even apply here”. This irritated her a bit (although I think her family is musical) because it wasn’t very inclusive. He wanted middle class children who played the violin or oboe and it showed.

Schools would
be more willing to accommodate children with high needs if they were given the resources to be able to.

As long as accepting children with high education or behavioural needs means TAs being unable to support a whole class’s education because they are in a corridor managing the behaviour of an individual, or classes have to be evacuated because a single child has become unsafe for other children, or parents are open about not being invested and supportive of hood behaviour and their children’s education, then it’s not surprising that headteachers try to manage their cohorts.

parents need to be held accountable for theor children’s behaviour and attitudes towards teachers and education, and SEND needs to be funded and resourced properly. Only then can we expect headteachers to be happy about accepting any child.

My daughter is in year 6 and so currently on the open evenings circuit of tours!
one of the kids in the year group has an EHCP, (I’m sure afew do but I happen to know the mum of this child) and the school that they have named have said that they can’t meet
the child’s needs so they have gone back to the case worker and said they want to argue this!
The school in question is quite big and focuses highly on academic standards and the child was totally overwhelmed on the open evening.
I just don’t understand why, in these circumstances, if someone says they “can’t meet the needs of the child” why you’d want your child to go there and fight for that? It doesn’t seem to make sense to Me and there are other good local options too. I find that strange. No expert but my understanding was that if they can’t meet the needs of a child there has to be very good reasons?

Yes, meanwhile the schools that actually do their job and accommodate children with SEND, end up with more and more of them, thus making things ever more challenging for the staff. The schools that try and put off parents will also talk about their great behaviour and outcomes, which of course is because they avoid any challenging children.

Agree with this. If a school has a strict behaviour policy (and, to be honest, it’s necessary nowadays given how dire behaviour is in general, and the lack of respect for teachers), then why would it want pupils who are unlikely to follow that policy, and whose parents may also be unlikely to be supportive?

It clearly happens sometimes as enough pp have shared their personal experiences but it isn't universal.

I teach at an Outstanding primary with a good reputation locally for supporting SEND children and their families.

The Head does a presentation at our Open Evening for prospective parents but the tours are carried out by Year 6 children. I can genuinely say that there's no attempt to dissuade "undesirable" families.

I don’t have direct experience of this, but I do often hear of parents moving their kids to different schools especially to better suit ND needs. If those same parents knew that school would have been poor from the outset, maybe they’d have made different decisions? Knowledge is power etc

Perhaps challenging children would not be a good fit for those schools though? And what about the learning of the children who follow the behaviour policy and want to learn?

Agree. Parents are largely responsible for their child’s attitudes towards education and teachers.

To be fair, there’s a lot of SEN = poor behaviour on here.

I have children with visual and hearing impairments, children with physical disabilities, children with severe dyslexia or general learning difficulties who behave very well. I also teach a number with no known SEND who do NOT behave well!

Our kids secondary had an excellent reputation generally and an excellent reputation for SN support in particular. The head however was very clear that parents who were not prepared to support (the very reasonable) school rules, or who couldn't be bothered to parent in general, could take their business elsewhere.

All schools are in the same situation regarding time and resources, but some headteachers/schools are just shit and don't even try to meet the needs of children with SEND, but are quite happy to increase the workload for other local schools by not taking their share of those children.

Draconian? No school is draconian nowadays. Being asked to wear a uniform and no jewellery is not draconian. Being asked to be silent when the teacher is talking is not draconian, it’s just respect. School is intended in part to prepare young people for the real world, which does involve following rules (laws, policies at work) regardless of whether we agree with them all.

SEN covers a lot of conditions, which are largely different. It’s the ADHD that sometimes means poor behaviour.

Parents are already in uproar when local schools (primary) don't have a TA per class. They're not wrong but where do you want the school to magic the TA and the budget for them from?

It's not a decision from the head to reduce the staff as much as they can because they don't like to manage people !

You already have classes with 30 or 31 kids and one teacher, how do parents expect extra support for a SEN kid that needs it?

Would you blame the head to say their school is not the best environment during the open days and call them a bitch like the poster above

It's the same in secondary