Ed Sheeran/Macklemore

[WallyHilloughby]

what are your thoughts on this whole debacle?
quite frankly I’m sick and tired of artists using concerts etc as some political forum

I used the word believe.

Israel is not hiding the fact that it intends to ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-will-finish-the-job-in-gaza-and-seek-palestinians-migration-defense-minister/

Wow, I did not realise how offensive this previously unknown fucker was.

I have a genuine question for those who sneer at Queers for Palestine and wonder why anyone would support the Palestinians because of their culture. Two questions actually.

Do the deaths of 20,000 Palestinian children since 2023 concern you less because these children were born into a Muslim society?

If Palestinians were eventually completely wiped out, or forcibly dispersed around the world as refugees, so effectively destroyed as a people, would this not concern you because they are a Muslim people and you dislike many aspects of their society?

That’s not a genuine question.

If you want to debate in good faith then don’t throw around nasty suggestions about people on Mumsnet not caring about the deaths of children.

Children are innocent victims in wars, which I’m sure we can all agree on.

What any of this got anything to do with Queer for Palestine?

As a side note, are you aware that homosexuals are routinely killed in Gaza (thrown off buildings) and that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Queer or homosexuals or Trans are allowed to exist? Does this make Queer for Palestine sound ironic or what?

Children being killed is awful and no nation should be wiped out, be it Jews or Palestinians.

See @JeanSimmons another one who repeats the untrue propaganda.

@localnotail where did you hear about throwing them off buildings . .was it from the same x account

Oh and the West Bank has legalized same sex relationships.

Seriously just shows how much lies are thrown out there.

They have murdered plenty in the last few decades so I'm afraid that's completely untrue.

Well the law is one thig but "discrimination" is not illegal - take it as you will? It is still illegal in Gaza.

Edited - I mean, homosexuality is illegal in Gaza.

You know, for sure that the proscribed terrorist organisation Hamas, whose appalling torture and murder of their own people is documented in a 2015 Amnesty International report never threw anybody gay off a roof? https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde21/1643/2015/en/

You can 100% say with full conviction that they never ever did that?

This would be different to and going much further than saying that a widespread video of a gay man being thrown off a roof wasn't them.

Like the imaginary 700k dead Gazans you made up yesterday?

Oh, ok, they did not throw anyone off the building - my bad. But a quick Google says the legal punishment for homosexuality in Gaza is up to 10 years in prison. Well, that is so much better.

What a strange jump.

No, I don’t want dead children.

No, I don’t think anything about this war is making any side look outstanding.

No, I don’t think there’s a single Muslim country where I’d want to live. I would be unwelcome in pretty much all of them, my mother would be unwelcome in even more, and for quite a few of them I’m not even allowed to visit as a tourist as someone born in Israel. Nor are my kids as the children of someone born in Israel. So more Muslim countries doesn’t exactly fill me with joy.

War is awful. Bombing London and Berlin and Hiroshima and on and on. Men wage war and women and children pay for it. It’s a terrible thing.

I flip it. Would it bother you if Hamas won and the Israelis were marched into the sea and they were free to wage war on Jews world wide? As per their charter. They have no wish to finish up and live in peace if they win. They will carry on finding us in Manchester and Pittsburgh and on Bondi beach. There’s no reasoning with that and no future for me or my family if Hamas wins. I don’t have solution and I hate every single second of this. I’m not a monster. I’m just so, so tired and terribly frightened.

There's 46 pages it's Friday night Which page says it and I'll read it.

Sorry what?

You claimed a death figure for the Gaza war that was ten times higher than reality.

On what thread and I'll check it.

This thread, yesterday evening.

Actually that wasn't you, my apologies, my bad.

Ok thanks for the apology I genuinely didn't think I did but I wasn't hundred percent.

They are completely genuine questions. I would like someone to explain their thinking.

And your answer doesn’t logically fit with “not understanding Queers for Palestine”.

If the children matter just as much whether they are born into a fundamentalist
Muslim society (if that’s the correct terminology) or not, then what about the women? Do they matter less or not? Are they “guilty”? Is it odd for gay people to support Palestinian women?

What about gay Palestinians? What about men who don’t agree with the hardline Islamic rule but are unable to speak out? Is it strange for gay people to support them?

I know they are uncomfortable questions because they get to the core of the question of whether you have to support a people’s culture and religion to want them not to be killed and not to be destroyed as a people.

The PLO (Palestine Liberation Organisation) does not have any laws protecting LGBTQ+ individuals and have consistently refused to implement such protections.

LGBTQ+ Individuals are treated and considered as second-class citizens in Palestine.

Palestinians authorities have banned LGBTQ groups in the West Bank.

Gay and Lesbian individuals have been imprisoned, tortured and killed because of their sexual orientation.

Palestine ranks 131st out of 175 countries for acceptance of LGBTQ people.

The UNRWA has advised Palestinians to treat all genders and LGBTQ+ people equally. However, Hamas has condemned this guidance as promoting "deviance and moral decay" so according to Hamas, anyone who is a Homosexual is a deviance and represents moral decay.

Activists Groups advocating for LGBTQ+ rights and representation in Palestine have been banned in the West Bank.

In Palestine and Arab countries in general, Gay people have been thrown off high buildings.

Honor killings are permitted if a Muslim family suspects their child is gay in Palestine and most if not all Arab countries.

Yes Queers for Pals has this one right 🙃

If children being killed is awful and no nation should becwiped out (which I agree with) why wouldn’t gay people be as concerned about the fate of the Palestinians as anyone else?

I’m straight but I don’t want to live under Islamic law either. I don’t see why it is any more strange for a gay person or a straight person to protest against Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians.

Are you saying gay people should automatically side with Israel just because of its treatment of gay people? Even if they think a genocide is underway?

I really just can’t grasp this viewpoint, and to be honest, I think it’s bordering on homophobic. Gay people are just as capable of full ethical judgments as any one else. This is about stopping the killing and displacement of tens of thousands of people. It is not equivalent to choosing which party you want to run your own country.

Oh come on, that was clearly a typo/slip up (it wasn’t me either before anyone starts) not someone actually trying to claim a death toll of 700,000.