Does anyone know what's going on in Dover?

[YourWatermelonship]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cmwyzxlzxpzgt
Hundreds of masked protesters dressed in black disrupting Dover port.

They bear an unfortunate resemblance to the blackshirts

Those masked men then moved on to Portsmouth to threaten and assault emergency workers.

To be accepted as an asylum claimant you have to show you cannot live safely in any part of your home country due to targeted persecution.

40% of rejections are overturned at tribunal.

40% then are accepted by the U.K. legal system as if they had returned home after initial rejection they would have returned to a place of no safety from targeted persecution, including torture and death. That’s a large number.

Personally, I would not be happy that we return people to such a place just because the home office made a decision that needed correcting.

No worries about the word. Forgotten already.

On the overall system I don’t think it’s good for anyone rn. I prefer one which stops deaths at sea entirely but also if people want we can take 20k to 30k and let people stay. It’s pretty much the opposite to Labour’s approach.

On the number I’m pretty flexible, some in electorate will wait more, some fewer, which is fine.

I hope you would still apply a processing system

And that numbers are changeable, the war in Ukraine saw an increase in applications as did the fall of Kabul.

As most refugees stay close to the country they are fleeing from, regional support could also be an option.

Countries will need to work together.

A claim would need to be processed, how could it not be?

I’ve already said I don’t particularly care what that number is, it’s up to the electorate. The appetite for what that is will probably go down as politicians keep this system going.

The Ukrainian system wasn’t the asylum process it was humanitarian visas. Fine by me, use humanitarian visas which enable vetting first.

Totally agree countries need to work together. I’d like a global response - of course that’s a naive dream!

Definitely, more regional support is a good one, yet we reduce Foreign Aid - no sense.

I’d also like governments to be honest about immigration and asylum seeking. It’s not going to stop but if we had facts and some reasons out there then maybe folk could understand a bit better. I’m never going to agree with a lot of immigration rhetoric probably but if it were approached with facts, and clarity I would accept a more rigorous approach. I want all governments to stop using it as a political gaming tool.

Mainly though I want the hatred against other humans to stop - it does not benefit us as a society as well as being disgustingly abhorrent.

So many can happily go back if they think their processing takes too long and you have no evidence that all of them are destined for certain death were they to go back.

Mainly though I want the hatred against other humans to stop - it does not benefit us as a society as well as being disgustingly abhorrent.

I’m sure you love all your fellow human beings.

@MsJinksif you want people to accept large numbers due to increasing needs for movement you’d need to be specific and say what you’re envisaging.

It can’t be it’ll change, we can’t say, it’s not unlimited, it’s some idea of international co operation. People will need to know more on what is being asked of them before voting for it.

What are 'large numbers' to you?

That’s up to you if you want to sell it in.

Back to the masked thugs , I see they have doxxed two RNLI workers on social media and are encouraging their followers to go after them.

Right, so you don't know.

That is awful

Some of the comments were just so terrible. Accusing them of facilitating rapists etc.

I’m not promoting the idea, you are. If you want voters to buy into international co operation you’ll need to be more specific.

I’ve given ball park below already on what I prefer, now over to you. How many are you thinking?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/protests-portsmouth-dover-migrants-rnli-37636827

I am not promoting anything

If I have to be specific, so do you.

I have told you many times that I cannot provide numbers, I am not an expert. Yet you keep accussing me of wanting open borders and/or unlimited uncontrolled immigration. I don't know why because we have a lot of common ground on the asylum seekers issue, we just don't agree politically.

I have below already. I’ve outlined a system and how many to take.

My post was to @MsJinksanyway but anyone saying international co operation and some vague idea of people being relocated then they will need to say more if anyone will buy in to it.

Well, that's a pathetic cheap shot. It isn't about love. It's about accepting that these are actual human beings and it's about having a basic comprehension of geopolitics. It shouldn't be a lot to ask. Instead we get talk of 'invaders' and worse. There's no nuance and no acknowledgement of the legalities and complexities, just simplistic thinking.

And none of it addresses the question of why it's acceptable for hundreds of masked men to block people from going about their lives.

Of course, the leader of this gang of thugs Danny Thomas has already been in jail for attempting to kidnap a man with a knife. Of course. Nice bunch of protectors.

I provided evidence that around 40% of rejected claims are overturned at tribunal. That is a court decided these 40% these people could not be safe if they returned. That surely is evidence a sizeable number are definitely at risk of their lives/safety.

It is possible that many others think they are at risk, or even are, but they don’t meet the criteria for acceptance. There are also those countries the U.K. will not currently send people for good reason, they could be failed asylum seekers yet never returned and to be frank of the U.K. government finds the country too risky to send them I’m not surprised they don’t shuffle themselves off back there.

Then they probably now have difficulty with the smugglers and traffickers if they just go and still owe massive cash to them.

I am not saying they should stay post appeal rights exhausted but they should pre appeal - appeal rights are part of U.K. justice system to get the most accurate result possible - sovereignty isn’t it.

After they are rejected no they shouldn’t stay but it’s not so simple always, plus I’ll agree it does need better management and reduced tribunal backlogs.

Sorry? I’m not sure what you mean here. I respect other people, I maybe don’t love everyone on the planet but I hope I don’t upset or offend any neighbour. It’s not that hard to be nice tbh.

I definitely don’t though go harassing any person, or join gangs of cos playing paras to attack others, or try to burn hotels down - a reasonable low bar inthink everyone could achieve!

I’m not saying accept too high numbers - I may think open borders could be great in theory of a lovely global society, but accept today’s world could not do this.

It’s difficult to put numbers on though due to ever increasing volatility of war, climate etc. I recognise people may want this and to see a cost/benefit type analysis but equally we can’t refuse a genuine asylum claim as oh you’re the one over the limit. And how do we return those over the limit just because - to certain death in some cases.

I’d like to see a larger acceptance across countries that these people exist, are human, and we can take action to support - if we stopped bombing places that’d be a start, but that won’t happen I know.

Discussion about improving the camps and situation of folk around Jordan with millions of people could be one thing.

Discussion of what to do in advance - for example when Kabul fell tbh this could have been anticipated and organised earlier across countries. Countries did work together to support people leaving but at a stage when it was dangerous and chaotic. Yes, again no one can legislate for the mess we and others ultimately caused and that won’t stop either.

Discussion across a sort of coalition of the willing to share support and homes would be good. Each country taking responsibility and fairer share - though U.K. would possibly actively have to take more tbh as we are low on numbers of asylum claims compared to a lot of countries.

But no one can guarantee asylum seekers numbers tbh. We did for Afghanistan say 20k, and Syria, but then there’s those still in dire need that will attempt to travel here anyway - it’s just so difficult to cap at a number.

But asylum costs 0.2% of government budget last time I looked, I imagine it’s decreased - it’s not the massive issue folk think - or the further right have encouraged people to think.

They did this to a Canon in Doncaster who wasn’t that happy with racist chants outside his church, in the church grounds actually, so stood next to counter protesters peacefully - easy target though to find.

This is abhorrent here - I hope that as RNLI is a very popular institution it becomes an own goal. They really are the lowest of the low and I how the workers are ok.