Wild expectations of grandparents

[Morningtee]

Just reading an article from the I paper called ‘the do’s and don’ts of grand parenting as children go back to school’ I’m sure the article was written with well meaning intent but as a Gen X I’m just increasingly shocked at some of today’s young parents expectations of grandparent role. Even a paid childminder wouldn’t put up with some of the advice in the article. I had a great relationship with my grandparents but they didn’t play the role that seems to be expected of modern grandparents which seems more about serving the needs of entitled millennial/Gen Z parents than the grandchildren. Indeed a number are quite happy to destroy the entire relationship between grandchild and grandparent if their wild expectations are not met

I’d be really upset to think I’d hosted someone’s kids once a week in my house and they said I’d played no real role in their life, to be honest I’d wonder why I bothered. Did they not talk to you at all, feed you, have any toys for you etc while you were there?

We stayed there for about 2 hours each week.

These were all 'older' parents and very much different times to now.

They may have asked a question like "how is school this week?" and they did give us a drink - there were no toys there.

It was very much a 'speak only when you are spoken to' situation. Times have changed now.

I’d just be grateful if my children’s grandmother didn’t invite us over and then once we had left moan on social
media about how exhausting she finds our visits. Obviously shes allowed to feel tired out by young children (and they are very well behaved and loving towwrds her but it’s less peaceful than a child free house of course) but it makes me feel sad for my children that that’s what she puts out there publicly about her experience with them. She could just say nothing, or only moan to friends in person. And no, I’m not going to cut her off for this.

My sister and I were at my grandparents house most days growing up because my parents both worked. On top of that they also took us for days out at the weekend sometimes and had us overnight just because they enjoyed spending time with us and wanted to give our parents a break. I have never asked for or expected regular childcare from my parents, but I did think they would want to look after my children occasionally (maybe once a month at the very most), to spend time with them and let my husband and I have a break and spend time together. I only thought this because of the relationship I had with my grandparents growing up and the expectations that my parents had of them. My parents have never looked after my children except for one night when I was giving birth to the second one. My husband and I haven’t spent any time just the two of us since our first child was born. My mum has watched me struggle with two very young children (one with additional needs) being at home all the time during the summer holidays and not offered to help at all. Yet she wants to be there for my son’s first day of school so she can post pictures of him on social media without my permission and appear involved in his life (she’s done this before). Maybe it is wrong of me to think my parents should help, and I would never “punish” them by stopping them from seeing the children. But it’s hard not to feel a bit resentful sometimes when my husband and I are struggling with two young children and we never get a break at all whereas I know my grandparents made sure my parents had plenty of support.

I just haven’t had this experience of my parents helping with childcare. My parents have had my son once for an hour in ten years - that’s it. They’ve never looked after my daughter.

It really varies by families I think. My in laws used to say they loved young kids but never volunteered to look after mine when they lived nearby. Apparently I was meant to ask if I needed help.

In your family growing up there may have been more housework to do but were both your parents working full time also since you were a baby, as is common now?

It's online but behind a paywall @Beepalarm

The url for the article, you can access it for free here , should anyone want to read it.

Growing up, my parents both worked full time and my dad had three companies, meaning he and my mum worked 50+ hours a week on book keeping etc. my grandmother raised me as a result.

i was also extremely sick as an infant ( they didn’t think I’d see my second birthday) so my grandmother moved back to England (from her home country) selling her own business and retiring. She cared for me as a second mother and I have many fond memories of her taking care of me when I was sick, picking me up from school, insisting my parents buy me a puppy (my beloved childhood dog). She went to school events, look care of my childhood home, and lived with us for a short time. When my parents moved to the other side of the country, she followed.

she even insisted I show her where I was living when I moved away for university. She bought me stuff for my house and made sure she knew how to drive to me in case I ever needed her. She paid for my driving lessons, gave me birthday money well past when I was an adult, and gives the best advice.

she always said that I was her final child, she really enjoyed raising me and often came on family holidays, let me stay at her house, picked me up from my parents’ work events when I was bored. I remember her washing my thick, long hair as a young girl. Even now, she sends me clothes (often hand made) and I bring her trinkets when I travel abroad.

she also, hilariously, couldn’t stand babies and thought they were horrid and dull. she always said I was very easy and lovely as a child, although im not sure how true that is.

my grandmother has a very special place in my heart, and I’m so glad she helped raise me. she rarely says “I love you” and doesn’t really like hugs, but she’s always shown up for me. Grandparents are usually much more stable for a child than parents.

Examples - ‘ask about routines, screentime, clubs, bedtimes, snacks, uniforms, bags, morning routines’ ….. sorry if I’m looking after someone’s child I expect them to pre sort out those things, have the uniform, bag etc already prepped and then tell me (and ideally write down) what works best for their child, and kindly ask me if they’d would like me to help their child with a piece of homework.

‘Support rules even when you don’t agree with them’ … fair enough if parents request restricted screen time, certain bedtime etc but in general I’m not agreeing to look after of have anyone around my house who is not abiding by my rules, my own children included, we wouldn’t say the same to a childminder e.g there is a no scooter/bike rule with my childminder, they can go on their scooter when we are walking them to school but not when the childminder is taking them, simple

‘Be adaptive and flexible to everyone’s changing needs, in the early years providing a nurturing environment after pick ups may be the priority and later on, it might be making sure kids get to clubs on time or they get an overnight stay at the weekend to make sure parents get a night off’ … again this is clearly written with the best of intentions but sounds more like advice for a 100k a year nanny
The whole article just comes across from the point of view of an exceptionally entitled parent

I don’t think I’d call those expectations wild. Some of it reads like journalistic waffle trying to hit a word count. But no one’s cutting off grandparents because they didn’t ask about school uniform.

Most of it sounds fairly sensible. It also mentions maintaining boundaries, changing your mind if you need to, not being a perfect grandparent.

If the article had said doing childcare should become your top priority, you should give up your job and be available 24/7 for any of your child’s whims and fully takeover the housework then yes that would be wild.

Yes I identify with this. When I was 4 years old in 1985 I recall our next door neighbor still had only an outdoor toilet. It was a large sized semi-detached house. My parents did not have a dishwasher until around 1990 and my mother never used it - considered it wasteful. We never had a tumble dryer.

I don’t think there’s an appreciation of how big the social transformation of how we live in the last 50 years has been. I remember Sundays before Sunday trading, consumerism did not exist. Nobody went ‘out for coffee, Starbucks’, gym memberships were unheard of, choice of food in the supermarkets was much more limited.

The experience of our parents and grandparents is completely different to how we live and what we have. I don’t think it is unreasonable that grandparents and great grandparents enjoy their time now without guilt.

Hmm reading that you’re picking and choosing the messages aren’t you

there is other stuff in there coming from different points of virw

it’s also an article designed to generate clicks so it’s obviously going to be more full on than the reality of what most parents are “demanding” / grandparents are offering

if You’re fixing your point of view of “parents these days” on this article then you’re being a bit of a wally

That is really lovely the role your grandmother played and most of us would think aww how amazing 🥰 just like when we here about other people give up their lives to dedicate to helping the street children of Calcutta etc and that level of sacrifice shouldn’t be admired but at the same time not automatically expected of grandparents. Expectations of self sacrificing role of women has changed dramatically but I’m not sure whether it’s ageism but grandmothers seem to be expected to be as self sacrificing as ever

My view isn’t coming from just one article but what I’m hearing and seeing in real life around me

We’ve always seen our parents for fun and zero childcare responsibilities (neither live close enough to have done childcare through the younger years). Im very happy with it that way. We do days out, meals out, walks, all the fun stuff and they get no stress, can holiday when they want and no additional responsibilities in their 70’s. Our kids adore them still in teenage years now, always love visiting. Both sets of grandparents raised us without help (again didnt live close enough). We used holiday clubs from 2, never had any issues going in school or holiday club because its what they have always known.

When my kids were at primary, I happened to bump into a friend on the school run with her parents (unusual as they shared the school runs between them anyway). She didn’t want to move her car from a good parking spot near her house so got the grandparents to drive her to school. Its just not within our thinking that you wouldn’t just walk abit further from your house if that spot had gone by the time you got home. She’s not wrong for asking and they are not wrong for helping, it just always stuck with me the big difference between those who never have help and those who do. It makes you wonder just how much some grandparents do for working parents that goes unseen, stuff that we have to fit around the work day/day off (housework, laundry, admin, shopping etc).

I think the most important thing is the grandparents should never be put under pressure. They’ve raised kids and health can change in a second (especially over 60). No grandparent should be doing anything they dont happily want to do. Even now (hopefully at least a decade before we have grandkids, perhaps two decades!), we know we dont want to be tied into childcare. We want it to be fun and make all the memories, but we also want freedom in our retirement. If our kids live close (and decide to have kids), we’ll have an honest conversation at that time.

Do most grandparents provide such regular care? If that is the case why are many nurseries and after school/holiday clubs full up with waiting lists?

Expectations of standards in child rearing have increased massively for everyone, not just grandparents but parents and paid childcare too. I had childminders because both parents worked, it was all unregistered back then, and some were lovely and it was home from home but a couple were not great and we weren’t allowed to do anything at all that might put a cushion out of place in their show home or we would be shouted at. One always had a headache and would spend the whole time lying down. this would be considered very poorly now.

It’s not just parents being demanding - this is what is demanded of parents now and it IS different to the expectations when the current parents were parented. That article is also saying though that you don’t have to be the parent to your grandchildren, it’s an opportunity to develop a relationship that is not related to school/parent expectations.

I don’t know anyone these days who has one parent staying at home unless they are very well off? Council houses are extremely hard to get too. I’m not saying it wasn't hard when your parents were raising kids but it’s also not easy now. parents who are raising young children now often both have to work 40+ hour weeks, pay £££ for childcare and source their own (very overpriced) housing. We aren’t living in some luxury deluded bubble and it’s exhausting hearing the Starbucks/gym membership/10x holidays a year waffle - if I’m busting my balls working full time and some, I’m going to ‘treat’ myself to a £30 a month gym membership. It’s a shame different generations are constantly racing to the bottom instead of recognising the struggles each have had - I’m very lucky I’ve never had an outdoor toilet and have always had a washing machine for example!!

Well of course it wouldnt have been written then, it’s only because people have social media to share personal stuff that we know the minutiae of random people’s lives and people who write articles can write them.

my husband who is 58, never met his maternal grandparents or any of her family as my mil was estranged from them hrs no idea why , my dad was estranged from the woman who married his dad after his mum died as a child, just would not acknowledge her. If you extrapolate out from that you can come to any conclusion.

youve previously cited this article and things you’ve seen “online”

how do you know how grandparents felt in the past?

what experiences are you seeing in real life (not comments on social media/mumsnet where you are only seeing things from people who put stuff out publicly)

in actual real life, at the school gates and in my family and friends, I am not seeing this stuff. People are getting along with normal
levels of give and take and trying to help while not overwhelm each other

Me too. I was 600 miles away and had ro pay for s childminder. As you say, we just got on with it.
I have grandchildren but don't live close enough to do regular childcare, nor does my daughter expect me to.
I met a woman on a bus recently who travels from Glasgow to Aberdeen every week to provide free childcare 3 days per week. She has to travel
up on the Monday then back on Friday. She was complaining that she can't get a cheaper term time holiday.
At a nursery trip there was a granny who looked top 70s, struggling with her grandchild. I think a lot of grandparents aren't physically fit but feel they'd be letting their family down if they said no.

I remember Sundays in the 1980s and seeing people dressed in their best clothes walking to church, town centres were completely dead, the corner shop would be open but that was all, things were very quiet except for us kids playing out in the streets which I have so many happy memories of. We never had a dishwasher, my first one was when I moved in with my partner in my early 20s. When we went shopping with my parents we went to the greengrocers for fruit and veg, the bakery for bread, the butcher for meat, the whole food shop for beans etc, the supermarket for cereals etc, they didn’t sell clothes or household items back then, you’d go into town for clothes, a book shop for books etc, nothing was online, it didn’t exist. I remember when Amazon first came out around 2000 and they were offering free vouchers but didn’t take it up as wasn’t sure could trust them 🤣 seemed so strange to buy things cheaply off the internet, assumed there must be something dodgy about it. You could buy some things through mail order but usually took about 28 days. Even when I had my first child in the late 1990s you couldn’t just look
things up like now, you had to ask your midwife or doctor, your mum or find a book on the subject, you couldn’t just google how do I change a nappy, help a constipated child, make a pancake, nearest baby groups, words to nursery rhymes etc and certainly no forums where you could connect to other people going through the same thing as you, find out that other parents were actually feeling equally as anxious about xyz, you’d would sit there thinking you were the only person going through this and that. Benefits were very minimal if entitled to anything at all, as a mother who has given birth in each of the last 4 decades I could on and on with how parenting is easier these days

My feeling about the current plethora of articles/posts on this is that it’s always been there - this high expectation of continued care put upon a particular group of older women, even if it wasn’t visible for people like the OP in their own community at the time - but there wasn’t the ability to get the (anonymous) point of view out there and heard by wider groups of people. It’s similar to all the stuff we hear about perimenopause which previously would have been talked about only privately.

this is a good thing, that people can be more aware. But it is very interesting that it is interpreted as a “parents these days” thing

Ah so this is the nub
you are primed for evidence that parents these days are feeble, precious, don’t realise how easy they have it, entitled etc this is how you are approaching these articles and posts online
you don’t actually really care whether your experience is the same or different to people in the past or now or whether these articles are reflecting any kind of truth

There was a lot of cutting family members off for unmarried pregnancy, being gay, or even getting divorced. Being respectable mattered.