Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion

[RosesAreRed85]

I live in a 4 in a block. I'm top floor and my garden (private) is the one shown on the left of the photo, surrounded by the fence. Neighbour is beneath and the window shown is her bedroom window. Both fences are mine, previous owner paid for them and for them to be erected.

I get on well enough with downstairs neighbour however the issue is that every time I go out to the garden, she comes out and chats, for a good half hour. She's elderly and I get that she just wants to chat, I have no problem with a short chat now and then, but last time I was out there, I had a whole day free when DC was at their dads and so wanted to get cracking on the garden, she came out 5 separate times, 3 times to chat for ages and will sometimes stand watching me from her bedroom window, which is a little awkward.

I'm not sure if it would be unreaonable of me to heighten the fence a little to give me privacy? I don't want to completely block her light, just her view into my garden! I was thinking of popping a trellis on top, so that light still gets through. Maybe pop some climbing flowers on it. The taller fence that can be seen is 6ft tall, i was thinking of matching the trellis height to this. Local planning permission dictates 6ft 6 inches is the limit that you can have fences, so I don't think I would be breaking any local laws. I'm sure she will complain as she's quite fixed on how she thinks things should be, so I'm not sure if it's unreasonable of me to do this?

You're being very cowardly. You don't want to act like an adult and patiently tell and demonstrate to this elderly lady that you only have limited time to talk and get on with your tasks. You've essentially encouraged her so far by being feeble. But instead of tackling it, you want to passively-aggressively block her view one day - well done for talking yourself into believing that trellis / plants 'won't block light' (of course they will). If you're unable to deal with other people, best save up for somewhere detached where no-one else can see possibly see you in your garden.

I would get some long wooden planters and fill them with clumping bamboo or strategically plant some hedging (Red Robin/laurel/hornbeam?). I had a nosy neighbour who had lived in her house for 30 years and constantly chatting/sticking her head over. She was very miffed when I replaced the 4ft fence with a six foot fence (and stopped talking to us). I continued to be pleasant when I saw her on the street. I want to be friendly with my neighbours but not friends!

You are worried about appearing rude, telling her you can't chat, but she has no qualms about impinging on your time and space, and I think that that is rude!

I'd go with the retractable screen. It's so temporary, it would be like having a big sheet on a washing line and you can just pop it out when you want peace and privacy.

In the meantime before the fence is up, practice having some big headphones on, practice saying "well no more chatting for me, I need to help DC learn this game/do some weeding/have a rest on the lounger/listen to this info for work" and after you've said that pretend you don't hear her if she carries on. It's no more rude than her carrying on when you've explained you don't want to chat further!

You have my sympathies op as I've had neighbours like this. Yes I was kind to them, yes it put me off stepping out my door at times. But I DID have boundaries and say if I was too busy, in a rush or needed some quiet. They're no longer with us and yes they were nice enough but I don't miss them as immediate neighbours.

You've been too accommodating with your time and you're now having to consider putting in a 6 foot fence. Oh dear. Bit of a steep jump, don't you think?

Could you not just do a slow freeze? Stop chatting, stop listening and stopping what you're doing so much.

You could just put a trellis there and grow sweet peas on it. They're fast growers and would provide abundant and repeated cut-flowers for the both of you for your houses. That might soften things bit if she can see a benefit to herself. Doesn't have to be a full trellis - they'll grow along tall and secure canes, and 6 foot would do quite well for them. They do need quite a lot of light though as otherwise they can be more prone to greenfly and poor growth. They're so cheap to grow from seed that it's small investment.

Wear some big obvious over the ear headphones

I’d put another barrier in the garden- maybe some tall hedging about 4 ft in front of her fence or you could put the trellis across the same place. Virginia creeper grows very fast - you’ve got your privacy then.

To be fair, the main person at fault here was whoever built those flats with the outside space laid out like that.

Anything that won’t block the light, won’t block her view either! You can’t have it both ways.
I don’t understand why you’re anxious to avoid an awkward conversation telling her you want privacy, but are apparently happy to erect a trellis that would be bound to upset her permanently.
You knew when you bought the flat that your garden would be directly overlooked.

I second having some very large plants in planters. You could put wheels on the planters too to make them easy to move around. You could have them further away from her window most of the time but when your dc wants to run around you could push them right up against the fence.

op I think it’s fine, she’ll still have light and you’ll have privacy. Of course it’s unreasonable for her to come out every time you’re in your garden, I would hate that.

There will be rules about how much and how close you can put something to someone’s boundary.
You have explained you don’t entirely understand things from the deeds. This I would recommend sorting out. Not based on what the previous owner said verbally, but what the deeds say are yours and what they say are not.
Not sure I understand why the garden is only yours but nowhere near your flat and not a shared one as they often are in flats etc.
I am wondering if you do have a shared garden.
Do check your deeds or call someone who can explain them.

I'm not considering putting in a fence. I said I want to add a trellis, just as you've suggested. Sweet peas or climbing flowers are a great idea!

Blocking her view 100% of the time is an unpleasant and selfish way to deal with a problem that only is an issue for the limited time you are gardening. It is also unlikely to deal with the problem because she will know when you are outside because of movement and noise.

A much better option is to tell her directly. If you can't do it face to face leave her a note. It's not that difficult

Say something like

I work very hard [or some such reason about stress in your life whether true or not] and my relaxation and down time is gardening which I value hugely for solitude and peace and quiet. I've noticed that recently you have started to come out to chat to me repeatedly when I am outside. Please don't think I am being unfriendly because this isn't about you but I would really appreciate it if you could allow me to garden most of the time undisturbed. I am writing this note [ or I wanted to speak to you about it] because I was thinking about putting up a higher fence for privacy but then realised that would block your view and wanted to speak to you about it instead to be more neighbourly. Happy to discuss further if you wish but I'd really appreciate a bit of space. To be clear, I'm not saying don't ever come out to speak to me but that I'd really value not being interrupted so regularly. Many thanks.

As it stands she has absolutely no idea how you feel. Telling her is much the best way to deal with this issue. For all you know, she may think she is doing you a favour chatting to you!

It should be possible to say to her, after a few minutes chat, "Well I really must get on" and then if she persists, answer in monosyllables or not at all.

I don't think you can do anything about her watching through the window and I would say anything erected directly in front of her window is not a good option

I think that whatever you put there will bother her. And she wants the company, so she would be out the second she heard you, anyway. So I’m not sure it’s wise to do anything other than have the ankward conversation with her a couple of times until she gets it. It’s where it’s heading anyways.

good luck!

I specifically bought a flat with a private garden so I could enjoy some quiet time outside

But you didn't buy "a flat with a private garden" OP. You bought a flat with a sole use garden that directly abuts and is overlooked by the ground floor flat.

If I'd bought a flat overlooking someone else's garden and they decided to stick a trellis so near my window that I couldn't see beyond it, I would be absolutely livid. Even if there are gaps in the trellis and between whatever you grow on it, it will be horribly claustrophobic.

I'd be going through the lease with a fine-toothed comb to see what my rights were, and speaking to the council's planning and building control people to see if you'd breached any regulations or conditions.

If you're bothered by her chatting when you're out in the garden, stick some headphones in your ears and tell her you're listening to a podcast or something.

I am wondering if the old lady thinks the garden is half hers.
The OP is not sure on the deeds about access etc. But she needs to be.
Many gardens is flats are shared. I am wondering if this lady has been told the garden is her garden or half her garden. So when she sees her go out wants to check what she is doing etc.
The OP needs to clarify all aspects to the deeds relating to access to it and ownership of it. Not rely on what the previous owner said to her.

The first proposal from this poster was the freeze her out though. Not the treilli.

But it seems you’re completely ignoring posters telling you to start telling her you don’t have time etc…. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I mean put a treilli if you want.Youll just have to deal with her coming to complain. Her talking to the other people in the building etc etc….
If you find it easier to deal with people (rightly) complaining than to tell them you want some quiet time, it’s your life after all.

Good luck with the complaints!

Does she have her own garden?

wheeling stuff over grass is a nightmare!

Ah ok. That's a bit different. If you want scented varieties, I recommend 'Juliet' and 'Charlie's Angel'. The latter looks quite wishy washy in photos, but is more beautiful in the flesh. I think I got mine from https://www.englishsweetpeas.co.uk/ but I think Sarah Raven also has a sale on for them at the moment on https://www.sarahraven.com/collections/sweet-pea-plants . Unless you know what her favourite colour is, I would go for pastel, more bland shades rather than black, red or oranges. They need at least 30cm of soil depth btw, so that might be quite prohibitive depending on your garden.

I know it might defeat the purpose, but I wouldn't block her view entirely or go full throttle with it.

Honestly, sorry if I sound harsh (it’s just my opinion) but if someone wrote me a note like that without ever having suggested that they had other things to do than talk to me then I would think they were bonkers. I agree that the OP shouldn’t go from 0 to 100, it’s just that I think this is way too serious given that she hasn’t even muttered “Got to get on” and by her own admission was stopping the sander to listen to what her neighbour was saying, even when she didn’t want to!

Granted the neighbour’s behaviour is also over the top and not “normal”. I just think OP should try at least suggesting that she’s busy, rather than putting up a trellis or sending a serious note as if the topic has been addressed previously.

I think the trellis is a good idea with flower baskets on it. Put headphones and play some music and block her out. If you see her, wave and say you can’t hear her because you’re listening to music! That’s what my neighbour does when tending to her front garden, to avoid talking to her chatty Kathy of a neighbour! I thought it was smart!

I was sanding something down, she kept talking at me and I had to keep switching the sander off to hear what she was saying, as I felt rude just ignoring her. Another time, I was playing a board game with DC, abd I had to chat with her

No way would I have turned off the sander. Or, I might have turned it off the first time, in case it was important, but if she continued to talk after I switched it on again, I would have given her a scowl and turned my back.
Nor would I have let her interrupt our game. I would have just said, in an offended tone "do you mind, we are playing a game here".

The trick is to get over your conditioning that you have to be nice to everyone and must not be rude. I have no issue with being rude to people if the situation requires it.

You have blurred the boundaries by being friendly at other times, like taking her out or doing shopping, so now she thinks you are friends. You are going to have to 'break-up' the friendship and make an enemy of her to get any privacy now.
That or move.

So tell her. Say you need some solo time in the garden don't want to chat as it's precious time...you've thought about putting up trellis but decided it was best to have a simple quick conversation. That you need this silent time. Then maybe give her a kind list of community organisations in a pretty card...coffee mornings etc..for older people and a flowering plant..so it feels a kind encounter for her. Far cheaper and kinder.

I couldn't live with doing anything else