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Original poster

Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion

346 replies

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 10:40

I live in a 4 in a block. I'm top floor and my garden (private) is the one shown on the left of the photo, surrounded by the fence. Neighbour is beneath and the window shown is her bedroom window. Both fences are mine, previous owner paid for them and for them to be erected.

I get on well enough with downstairs neighbour however the issue is that every time I go out to the garden, she comes out and chats, for a good half hour. She's elderly and I get that she just wants to chat, I have no problem with a short chat now and then, but last time I was out there, I had a whole day free when DC was at their dads and so wanted to get cracking on the garden, she came out 5 separate times, 3 times to chat for ages and will sometimes stand watching me from her bedroom window, which is a little awkward.

I'm not sure if it would be unreaonable of me to heighten the fence a little to give me privacy? I don't want to completely block her light, just her view into my garden! I was thinking of popping a trellis on top, so that light still gets through. Maybe pop some climbing flowers on it. The taller fence that can be seen is 6ft tall, i was thinking of matching the trellis height to this. Local planning permission dictates 6ft 6 inches is the limit that you can have fences, so I don't think I would be breaking any local laws. I'm sure she will complain as she's quite fixed on how she thinks things should be, so I'm not sure if it's unreasonable of me to do this?

Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion
OP posts:
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16
pimplebum · Yesterday 15:23

weird layout

id grow something its more subtle or a sun shade ?

can you nit find nice ways of discouraging chats ear pods in and sorry iam on a call / listening to pod cast

weebleswobblebuttheydontfallover · Yesterday 15:23

On second thoughts @WhyReindeer you’re right, the OP is clearly unable to give even the slightest hint that she isn’t happy to talk to the neighbour, so should write a note 😊

Travelodge · Yesterday 15:23

EarthSight · Yesterday 15:19

Ah ok. That's a bit different. If you want scented varieties, I recommend 'Juliet' and 'Charlie's Angel'. The latter looks quite wishy washy in photos, but is more beautiful in the flesh. I think I got mine from https://www.englishsweetpeas.co.uk/ but I think Sarah Raven also has a sale on for them at the moment on https://www.sarahraven.com/collections/sweet-pea-plants . Unless you know what her favourite colour is, I would go for pastel, more bland shades rather than black, red or oranges. They need at least 30cm of soil depth btw, so that might be quite prohibitive depending on your garden.

I know it might defeat the purpose, but I wouldn't block her view entirely or go full throttle with it.

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But sweet peas are an annual and would only work for a few months each year.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Gardening
weebleswobblebuttheydontfallover · Yesterday 15:25

StandingDeskDisco · Yesterday 15:22

I was sanding something down, she kept talking at me and I had to keep switching the sander off to hear what she was saying, as I felt rude just ignoring her. Another time, I was playing a board game with DC, abd I had to chat with her

No way would I have turned off the sander. Or, I might have turned it off the first time, in case it was important, but if she continued to talk after I switched it on again, I would have given her a scowl and turned my back.
Nor would I have let her interrupt our game. I would have just said, in an offended tone "do you mind, we are playing a game here".

The trick is to get over your conditioning that you have to be nice to everyone and must not be rude. I have no issue with being rude to people if the situation requires it.

You have blurred the boundaries by being friendly at other times, like taking her out or doing shopping, so now she thinks you are friends. You are going to have to 'break-up' the friendship and make an enemy of her to get any privacy now.
That or move.

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OP has made a rod for her own back. She’s now going to trigger a neighbour dispute by putting up a barrier rather than saying anything to her neighbour.

Original poster
RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 15:25

Monty36 · Yesterday 15:11

I am wondering if the old lady thinks the garden is half hers.
The OP is not sure on the deeds about access etc. But she needs to be.
Many gardens is flats are shared. I am wondering if this lady has been told the garden is her garden or half her garden. So when she sees her go out wants to check what she is doing etc.
The OP needs to clarify all aspects to the deeds relating to access to it and ownership of it. Not rely on what the previous owner said to her.

I am sure on the deeds of access for my garden. I discussed it with my solicitor when I bought the flat. What I'm not sure about is the walkway that runs alonside the garden. The woman i bought it from believes its shared. Going by every other property around us, its shared. However I haven't bothered to pursue it as that walkway is of no use to me, I have no reason to be using it as it only leads to her garden and back door.

OP posts:
whatwouldlilacerullodo · Yesterday 15:26

I don't think Doris cares about how you feel, or how busy you are, considering she complained about the trampoline. So I think you should worry less about her feelings and just tell her you're busy.

latetothefisting · Yesterday 15:27

Pearlstillsinging · Yesterday 11:20

You should simply continue to do whatever it us that you are busy with when she starts to chat. If you switch off your sander/interrupt your game to talk to her, she will think that you want to talk to her. Just get on with whatever you are doing with minimal interaction with her. She will get the message eventually but currently you are giving her the wrong message.

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agree with this. Also, as mean as this sounds, so what if it offends her? It's a win-win for you then, she won't come out and keep chatting to/staring at you.

Posters are recommending 'being kind' to her because of her age, but it's actually really infantilising towards her. You're criticising OP because she 'should have expected' her privacy would be reduced if she bought a garden with that layout, but the exact same applies to her neighbour - she bought a flat without a garden, knowing perfectly well exactly where her boundary ends.

OP would be perfectly within her rights to put up a fence the size of the 'side' one plus 6 inches. Everyone aghast at 'oh but you can't block out her view' - she is not entitled to a view of someone else's garden! I imagine if their neighbour complained about their fence being too high because they like to look in they'd be the first to complain - it's just snobbery towards people who live in flats rather than lovely detached houses.

People have created this imaginary character of a lovely little old lady but from actually reading what OP says, she moans at her kids when they use their trampoline in their own garden, and stares out at them from her bedroom for long periods - if she was a man people would be recommending calling the police!

I'm not saying build a giant fence but I don't think her age should impact how OP treats her. She's not your grandmother, or a friend, she's just a neighbour, so treat her exactly the same as you would a 40 year old man - polite and even friendly but there is no need to prioritise her preferences for your garden over your own!

StormGazing · Yesterday 15:30

Big headphones and a swift ‘right, I really must get on now, see you later’ should do the trick

godmum56 · Yesterday 15:30

Anyahyacinth · Yesterday 15:22

So tell her. Say you need some solo time in the garden don't want to chat as it's precious time...you've thought about putting up trellis but decided it was best to have a simple quick conversation. That you need this silent time. Then maybe give her a kind list of community organisations in a pretty card...coffee mornings etc..for older people and a flowering plant..so it feels a kind encounter for her. Far cheaper and kinder.

I couldn't live with doing anything else

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because "be kind" hahahahahaha

MyDeftDuck · Yesterday 15:30

godmum56 · Yesterday 14:05

unless is it the deeds as a covenant then there is no legal right to view. Right to light must have been enjoyed uninterrupted for 20 years for it to be a legal requirement, Covenants may also limit fence height but not because of the rights of a neighbour.

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OP doesn’t actually state whether she nd the elderly neighbour are the home owners or renting and which would put a slightly different spin on this surely?

Monty36 · Yesterday 15:32

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 15:25

I am sure on the deeds of access for my garden. I discussed it with my solicitor when I bought the flat. What I'm not sure about is the walkway that runs alonside the garden. The woman i bought it from believes its shared. Going by every other property around us, its shared. However I haven't bothered to pursue it as that walkway is of no use to me, I have no reason to be using it as it only leads to her garden and back door.

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But are you sure about the actual garden itself ?
You are sure of deeds of access to the garden for yourself. How do you get to the garden ?
The previous owner told you a walkway is shared. This walkway leads to the old ladies garden and her back door.
So the old lady does have a garden.
Is this one different from the one you consider to be yours ? If yours is different how do you get to it without using the walkway ?

godmum56 · Yesterday 15:33

MyDeftDuck · Yesterday 15:30

OP doesn’t actually state whether she nd the elderly neighbour are the home owners or renting and which would put a slightly different spin on this surely?

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No difference to right to light or deeds of covenant. Anyone who rents instead of owns, obvs needs to talk to their landlord or the agent but it doesn't change the law. The right to light thing means that the HOUSE must have had it, not the resident.

godmum56 · Yesterday 15:33

Monty36 · Yesterday 15:32

But are you sure about the actual garden itself ?
You are sure of deeds of access to the garden for yourself. How do you get to the garden ?
The previous owner told you a walkway is shared. This walkway leads to the old ladies garden and her back door.
So the old lady does have a garden.
Is this one different from the one you consider to be yours ? If yours is different how do you get to it without using the walkway ?

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ummm out her own back door?

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · Yesterday 15:33

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 11:01

I haven't. I would feel awfully rude. How would I even word that? 'Sorry, I don't want to talk to you'?

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Nowhere near as rude as putting permanent physical barriers between you. Just put on visible headset, tell her it's your quiet time and you're listening to an audiobook

HeatWaving · Yesterday 15:34

Not read the whole thread but you live on the 4th floor but own the garden at street level? And your neighbour has that tiny 'garden' with the black handrail in it?

If this is the case, you can't put trellis above perhaps 12 inches.

Your fence is already 6ft high.

Monty36 · Yesterday 15:36

godmum56 · Yesterday 15:33

ummm out her own back door?

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I rather imagine she does have to leave the house to get to the garden.
Which bit of land and how she does it is what I am asking.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · Yesterday 15:36

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 11:46

What do I do about the watching me out the window issue though?

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Garden naked?

godmum56 · Yesterday 15:37

Monty36 · Yesterday 15:36

I rather imagine she does have to leave the house to get to the garden.
Which bit of land and how she does it is what I am asking.

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oh sorry I hadn't clocked the 4th floor bit

weebleswobblebuttheydontfallover · Yesterday 15:37

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · Yesterday 15:36

Garden naked?

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That had occurred to me earlier but I really wasn’t sure if it would help 🤣

abracadabra1980 · Yesterday 15:38

I just don't understand the whole concept of which bit is yours and which bit is hers?

HeatWaving · Yesterday 15:38

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 12:28

I bought a garden which is overlooked. I was aware of that when I bought it. It may not be my neighbours problem however that doesn't mean that its ok for her to come out every time I'm in my garden and talk at me on and off all day.

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You are funny.

She can come and chat any time she wants to.

All you need to say is 'Sorry I'm so busy, can't chat.'

It's your fault you bought a top floor flat with a street level garden and you are overlooked.

Monty36 · Yesterday 15:38

Is the land provisionally owned OP? As in the ownership is not clear.
It takes twelve years of continually owning a piece of unowned land to then claim it as yours.

HeatWaving · Yesterday 15:39

I genuinely do not get why these flats were built like this.

Is the garden all yours?

Are you in Scotland by the way?

Bogstandardname · Yesterday 15:41

Plant tall evergreen, flowering shrubs, no idea what, but I am sure the gardeners here can recommend.

SilenceInside · Yesterday 15:43

Is her entire outside space that which runs alongside your low fence and the small planted area by the door with the black handrail?

Is there any way that you could design your garden for more privacy, so have something more structured than an area of lawn? So, maybe an arch, trellis, planters etc to form a more private central area.