Misandry and Mumsnet

[estrogone]

Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology? Would it be ok of it were the other way round.

As a woman and mother of sons, the attitudes and comments on MN border on hate speech and I think Mumsnet HQ should do something about it.

Is this really how we want to balance the scales?

E: spelling

I think you probably don’t judge everyone irrespective of sex individually.

I mean, you probably make conscious and unconscious decisions all the time based on sex. I am fairly sure if you were travelling late a night and there was a train carriage with only men and one with plenty of women you would subconsciously choose the carriage with women. Or if you were getting on a bus a night with all men near the back you may choose to sit nearer the driver at the front. In fact that is just good practice. Assaults are common on women on public transport by men are fairly common.

Of course there is a worldwide pattern of poor male behaviour. I know that. But just because I'm not judging every man I meet doesn't make me misogynistic or in denial or wilfully blind to it.

I can see that some men are awful but at the same time be happy with my life.

It's a competitive sport on here to hate men 😂😂😂

So as the next poster asks you, you’d happily walk the streets late at night alone? You’d get into a railway carriage full of drunk men rather than one with women because you are “sex blind”?

You probably have not brought these choices this into your consciousness.

Of course. I mean I judge individuals as I meet them one to one. A group of men (or women) aren't going to be judged as individuals.
I'm going to avoid sitting with a group of men i dont know on the night bus.

Of course I wouldn't do either of those things because it would be dangerous. I meant I judge people on an individual basis as I meet them in everyday life eg professionally, as friends whatever.
Also, I never referred to myself as 'sex blind' I said i judge people as I meet them on an individual basis.

I never said nor implied it does. It was in response to @thisandthats comment which I absolutely agree with. I’m not saying that this applies to you but there are women who don’t believe that women can be evil off their own bat and all men are the devil incarnate.

Anyone who uses the term "misandry" is a knob, in my experience.

The relevance is obvious. I'm directly contradicting your statement that what men are capable of isn't important, it's women's perceptions that matter, by telling you the second is a result of the first. I don't know how to be clearer.
However I see that you're rather taken with your percieved gotcha of "If you think we're that bad we will stay away from you and see how you like that". To which my response is, please yourself.
The number of men who will forego a relationship just to make a point will be vanishingly small. Most will want to be with someone and it would be useful for them to learn how to make that work and last.
Though of course, the numbers of marriageable men arguing from a men's rights perspective on MN is even smaller, so I don't anticipate much change either way.
The real change comes from women talking to each other and seeing what they're putting up with from a new perspective.

OP has disappeared

But do you feel suitably chastised though?

Edit
I don't hate all men but I dislike an awful lot of them, many whom I've never personally met but have read about in the news doing truly horrendous acts. I've not met a thoroughly decent one yet as most seem to pretend to be decent until you think they are okay then then aren't.

Relevance: I still think it doesn't matter and I've explained why. But we dont need to debate that because I'm sure I've agreed men really are shit more than once (I'll do it again in the next paragraph.)

Gotcha: It's not really a gotcha, I think in the last few decades women and men have realized marriage and children is pretty crap. There are so many opportunities that (say) Victorian people didn't have. Adventure, travel. Work is more interesting for many. Large numbers of people have long since decided not to have children and not getting married. You frame it like it's some kind of sulk. It's not. The world has moved on, we're all equal now, women can work on equal terms. That's reflected on mumsnet, as you say it's not a perception it's reality. I'm saying it's healthy and beneficial that spelled out. It's not something we want hidden, that's causes misery which is easily avoided.

Most will want to be with someone and it would be useful for them to learn how to make that work and last.

So you agree women airing their views on this stuff is a good thing. ✔️

4 percent is a lifetime figure not a single year. I notice you didn’t say how my actual calculation might be wrong, just accused me of poor maths and living in terror, which I’m not. I do live with appropriate caution though.

'Class' is not the correct word to use in this instance.

oh @WildGarlicSoup push off. Class analysis is a very good way of looking at things.

We are talking about Men as a class. We are also talking about women as a class (who are affected by men.) We can look at social class, we can look at race - in Marxist analysis race is a class too.

I don't think anyone believes that.
The majority of people hold women to very high standards, much higher than men, and are very vocal in condemning women. Even on here.
How many MiL are complained about for not doing childcare compared with FiL? On affair threads if a man cheats the OW is apparantly 'just as bad', but when a woman cheats she is entirely to blame, the other man barely warrants a mention.
Yes, you do get a proportion of women on here who champion women, as would be expected on a supportive female dominated site. And yes, some are biased. But there's not many places in this world where there's a deliberate attempt to see women in a good light, to approach with understanding rather than condemnation.
It seems mean spirited to begrudge it when it appears on here.

I haven’t ever heard anyone say women can’t do bad things. I have heard a lot of people say that thinking men can-and do-do bad things means believing that women can’t.

Sorry @MickyMoonshine 💐
And @Taztoy 💐

Really well said. 👏

Yes, it would be dangerous because men, as a sex, commit a lot of violent crime and we can never, ever know which men will violently murder and rape us. So we profile them based on their sex. And then, once we have avoided being alone with an unknown man or group of men we make decisions individually about individual men.

But we do it because they're men. Because we know that the chances of a woman violently assaulting us, murdering us etc are microscopic compared to that of a man doing so.

When my kids were little, and we'd go out to malls or other busy places, we had a few rules in place. I watched them both (a boy and a girl now all grown up to a man and a woman) but still I worried, knowing how quickly kids can get distracted.

They were to shout, scream, kick, make a fuss and above all shout YOU'RE NOT MY DAD (or mum) if anyone tried to drag them off. They were to go up to the concierge or someone similar in a public spot and ask for help loudly and publicly. Criminals hate attention, so start smashing things and make noise. Never allow anyone to take you into a room or away from the public area, even if they have a uniform on. I don't know how effective my lectures were, but I tried to at least give them a framework for what to do.

And then there was the "what if you are forced to ask a stranger for help" discussion.

First ask a woman with children. Next, ask a woman without children. If really pressed ask a man with children. That was the rule. Every single person here, every last one, even the handmaidens, understands why this was the rule, completely. Including OP.

My son understands why we had this discussion, as he sees women and children as human beings, not props for his comfort or discomfort.

Yes, it's a definite red flag. It's like saying "I'm not a racist, but..."

I remember that talk. A police officer, a lady working behind the counter in a shop, a lady with children with her, a lady. In that order. Never ever a man. I was taught this in the 70s. I taught my children in the 90s and they teach their children now.

I agree with you. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Thank you ❤️

If you agree with me, you know the point I was trying to make.

I may have replied to the wrong person, there are a few attempting to minimise the threat men, as a sex, constitute to women and children on the thread, sorry if I misunderstood.