Misandry and Mumsnet

[estrogone]

Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology? Would it be ok of it were the other way round.

As a woman and mother of sons, the attitudes and comments on MN border on hate speech and I think Mumsnet HQ should do something about it.

Is this really how we want to balance the scales?

E: spelling

I think @Additup your posts are more nuanced than certainly I initially thought. I think from reading your follow up posts that you agree men as a sex are a problem for women due to their behaviour but you recognise that not all men are like that.

Is that the position you were articulating? I think many of us can agree on that.

I’m not sure if that is what the OP considers misandry though or if she would also support that position.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Sometimes it's difficult to articulate a point well online.

Op hasn't been back, so lacks creditability and looks provocative rather than engaging in a proper debate about this.

It really isn't! But it's fine, really as we can agree to disagree.

Honestly, nothing springs to mind. I would need to think hard.

But I can think of many occasions of hurt caused by women in my lifetime.

You are wrong on the last point. Would you encourage a friend to marry a man who you knew was lazy or abusive? I think not. That's not insulting, it's common sense.

It is.

Can you please explain why you think the word class is being used incorrectly in this context.

People ( including me) have explained why we’re using it and you keep saying we’re wrong but with zero explanation.

In this context I’m using the term class from a sociological perspective as we’re discussing power dynamics between the sexes and the role of men and women in society. The word class is widely used this way in sociological studies of men and women. Can you explain why you think it’s incorrect?

Men, women, unconsciousness, alcohol poisoning, hyperthermia, ditches, rivers, traffic etc. etc..

If this is really how you view (and will twist) a man trying to assist a women (or any person) then you have a very unhealthy mindset indeed, I'm afraid @nonoono.

Well done on ChatGPT.

Well, don’t young men need to be protected from those dangers? Why are only young women being walked home,

Honestly, nothing springs to mind. I would need to think hard.

Then you must be the only women in the world who has not had to consider their safety around men.

But I can think of many occasions of hurt caused by women in my lifetime.

I’ve said this before but if you want to talk about women’s behaviour then start your own thread.
The fact you’ve been hurt by women doesn’t mean men aren’t a danger to women more widely. It doesn’t mean misogyny doesn’t exist. For someone who has apparently studied at master’s level you really lack critical thinking skills.

You are wrong on the last point. Would you encourage a friend to marry a man who you knew was lazy or abusive? I think not. That's not insulting, it's common sense.

This is really ignorant and again, lacking in critical thinking. The vast majority of women aren’t marrying men knowing they are lazy or abusive. Quite often these behaviour traits are well hidden - until they aren’t and for some women that is too late.
For example , it’s well documented that pregnancy is a trigger for abusive behaviour to start.
It’s also well documented that ending a relationship can be a trigger for violence.
Coercive and emotional abuse is insidious and not always recognised immediately and is often hidden to the outside world.
Societal structures mean women can be trapped in abusive relationships due to financial constraints.

It’s worrying that you seem woefully ignorant to all
of this and instead choose to blame women.

No - I have a degree, 2 masters and a PhD in sociology.

You still aren’t answering the question.

Who is walking your sons home to protect them from all of these dangers? Why do they choose just to walk their female friends home?

It’s a good thing that your sons are doing but if you think the reason they are walking their female friends home to protect them from hypothermia then you’re deluded. Men walk women home to protect them from other men.

Oh Lord.

I got bored with the whole, are you a man shite.

My sons & daughter are very well balanced thanks. The reason I raise having sons is that it pisses me off that they are judged as awful just because they are male. They are respectful, good kids who don't deserve that.

The question was not about my children or our family attitudes, or understanding it was if it is ok to blanket apply a lowest common denominator approach to all men. Is it OK to be hateful- just because someone is a man.

Nothing I have read on this thread has persuaded me that it is OK. In fact the vitriol for having just asked the question reinforces my opinion that its not.

Op has a life and lives in a different timezone.

misandry/mɪˈsandri/Misandry is the hatred, dislike, prejudice, or discrimination against men.

Do you understand difference between judging your sons as individuals and judging men as a group? Nobody is saying your son is a horrible person. What they are saying is that Men as a class pose a threat to women. As a woman, you have no idea which individual man will harass/assault/rape/kill you just by looking at them. Therefore, to safeguard ourselves many women are wary of men until proven otherwise. If your sons are good men then they’ll understand this and they won’t have any issues.

If men as a class want to not be considered a danger to women then they need to stop being a danger to women. That’s an issue for ALL men to fix.

Do you have daughters?
Would you encourage them to walk the men in their lives home to protect them from these dangers?

Women are commonly police officers so physically controlling violent criminals is well with women's capability.

Police officers are trained to do this and carry equipment to support them to incapacitate criminals.

Your average woman is not trained to defend herself against a man who is likely to be bigger and stronger. To suggest otherwise is one of the most ridiculous and stupid things I’ve read on this thread. And you have tough competition.

This is a strange take.

Are you saying that if a woman is raped or attacked by a man that she just didn't try hard enough to physically control him?

But do you really? Don’t you feel safer if you find yourself alone in a space with a stranger if that stranger is female rather than male?

Where do you see misandry on this site though @estrogone

MNHQ have given you their response to your accusation that the site is full of misandry which given how strongly you feel I would have thought it would be worth challenging them on because basically they said actually it is full of women discussing their personal experiences and they are not required to start that discussion with writing a caveat that not all men are like that.

So where is all of this misandry you are seeing?

Of course maybe instead of the definition of misandry you gave above, maybe you view misandry as women discussing their negative experiences of male pattern behaviours.

Not sure what this has to do with my post. In my experience most women are a lot more forgiving and naive about men than men are. Most men are pretty realistic about their sex.

^Yes, this. My DH certainly is and doesn’t ever disagree when I make a comment about men and what they do to women and children.

Although he and many of the men I know now are lovely, I’ve had plenty of experience of abusive men sadly. My F sexually abused my DSis and me and allowed other men to do so, and my DSis’s ex H was abusive to her. (Her second DH is lovely though.)

More recently, my vulnerable DD1 (17) has faced online abuse, including rape threats, just because she wasn’t interested. (She isn’t interested in boys.)

This isn't 'attack' on your specific kids though. The difference is that the 'bad' ones don't have signs saying they are, so we have to assume they all are until they show us differently. The wider debate is about patriarchy and how even the nonviolent ones don't call out their friends/ colleagues enough because at the end of the day they benefit from it and are thereby all complicit.