Misandry and Mumsnet

[estrogone]

Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology? Would it be ok of it were the other way round.

As a woman and mother of sons, the attitudes and comments on MN border on hate speech and I think Mumsnet HQ should do something about it.

Is this really how we want to balance the scales?

E: spelling

Critical thinking skills are what you need here.!

I sometimes wonder if women who go around trying to minimise misogyny are actually worried about admitting the truth and how they are impacted by it, and want to continue being oppressed as it's easier.

If a person thinks rape and sexual abuse are rare then they absolutely do not have the knowledge to make proclamation of any sort that people should take with any degree of usefulness on that subject.

There are any amount of research sources out there to disabuse them of this wilful stupidity.

There is a lot of research of the psychology of why some women need to do this. It is a gilded cage for them of course that can sometimes end up being breached in horrendous circumstances but it is obviously far from reality.

I too am a parent of two sons who have been raised to treat others as they themselves would like to be treated. I know for a fact if they showed any misogynistic traits their partners wouldn’t hang around. I’m proud of the men they have become. One of my sons was hit by a girl when he was younger because he finished with her as she was becoming very controlling. Did he hit her back NO, he just walked off.
I think on a forum like this you are going to get a lot of posts from women who have been treated badly (perceived or not) that think men are the devil incarnate and therefore all men get tarred with the same brush. Men can be on the receiving end of domestic violence, unwanted sexual comments and advances from women but tend not to admit it. Perhaps not to the same extent as women but it does happen. In my previous job I’ve witnessed it.
As an aside the double standards on here beggars belief.

It’s also important to recognise that men, as a class, are dangerous. The biggest threat to women is men but the biggest threat to men is also …men!!

Its not misandrist to say that.

'Class' is not the correct word to use in this instance.

Posters like you demonstrate a point perfectly. You don't hate men; you just hate. I have no more time for it.

OP, just raise your boys the same way you would raise girls. Teach them to be polite, kind and understanding.

For instance, we actually never had to teach our sons to walk their female friends home from the pub if it was late, or the girl had had too much to drink. They always did so of their own accord. Sometimes this would mean they were late home but they would always do that, and still do.

My youngest son ran into his ex girlfriend recently on a night out and walked her home, to the other end of town to our house.

Posters will always put the same boring lines and statistics on here on repeat but remember all the amazing men who work in jobs that save lives every single day. There are far more very good men out there than evil ones. There are plenty of evil women around ruining people's lives every day in WhatsApp groups and at school - but that's okay because they are girls and women.

The only person in my sons friendship groups who was ever rude to me was a teenage girl. My son immediately told her to apologise to me and distanced himself from her thereafter.

But, here I am falling into the man haters trap of 'men are worse, no women are and this is why.' It goes round on repeat in circles and is just so pointless.

You don't actually hear any of this man hate nonsense in real life.

You dont know if you anyone whose been raped. What you do know is that nobody's ever today you they've been raped which is very different. There might be a reason why nobody has ever confided in you . Look at all the men who raped the French women, no rarity there.

I think the fact that no woman has confided their experience of sexual abuse to her (assuming it is a her, if it’s not then he can absolutely shut the fuck up about the subject no matter how many degrees he has) tells me all I need to know about her views. I know one woman who hasn’t experienced sexual abuse of one kind and sheltered a very sheltered life and rarely goes anywhere alone. Even then she is fortunate not have experienced it. The things woman go through and prolific and horrendous. It’s insane to suggest rape is rare, as you say, the evidence for this is stark and overwhelming. I think this is being said to support a point of view that harms women.

As I said earlier I’m frightened of men. I am jealous of those women who are not, who think men are innocent and feminism is ruining their poor little lives, wish I had their confidence and didn’t feel scared when going about my life.

Why is it so scary to face the fact that men as a class are far more of a risk to women than women as a class are a risk to men?

How on earth can things change if we pretend all is well? Because it's a priority not to hurt men's feelings?.

How can anyone not see that all around the world women are at risk from men in far greater numbers and far more ways than men are from women?

Class. Group. Segment of the population. Whatever the preferred word is. The group of humans globally that are male.

My sons don't hate women. I've still taught them the things they need to know as men. (Not staying silent when other men harass women, not sharing unacceptable content, realising that while from their pov they are just walking down a street they must be mindful of how a woman in front of them might feel, giving women personal space, accepting no for an answer, not thinking a woman just going about her day owes them a smile or a chat etc etc)

You dont fail to teach them these things because they dont hate women or you think they don't hate women

So you can categorically say you dont know anyone who has been raped and the only rudeness you've witnessed in your sons' circles came from a girl @WildGarlicSoup?

I think you may have a blind spot.🤔

’Class' is not the correct word to use in this instance.

As a sociology academic I respectfully disagree.

Posters like you demonstrate a point perfectly. You don't hate men; you just hate. I have no more time for it.

I don’t hate men. I’m wary of men. I recognise that there is a significant amount of misogyny in our society and I think it is important that we call it out and challenge it.

OP, just raise your boys the same way you would raise girls. Teach them to be polite, kind and understanding.
For instance, we actually never had to teach our sons to walk their female friends home from the pub if it was late, or the girl had had too much to drink. They always did so of their own accord. Sometimes this would mean they were late home but they would always do that, and still do.

If women aren’t at risk of dangerous behaviour from men why do you sins need to walk them home? Sounds like they recognise that there is a risk.

My youngest son ran into his ex girlfriend recently on a night out and walked her home, to the other end of town to our house.
Posters will always put the same boring lines and statistics on here on repeat but remember all the amazing men who work in jobs that save lives every single day. There are far more very good men out there than evil ones.
But none of this cancels out the behaviour of poor men.
When my mum was murdered by her ex partner it didn't matter that there were men that didn’t murder their partners that night. She’s was still dead.
We know there are good men out there but that knowledge doesn’t always protect us from the bad ones. We’re right to be wary and to safeguard ourselves.

There are plenty of evil women around ruining people's lives every day in WhatsApp groups and at school - but that's okay because they are girls and women.

We’re not talking about women’s behaviour. If you want to discuss women brushing poorly then start a thread. Don’t try to undermine women’s experiences by trying to detract from men’s poor behaviour.

The only person in my sons friendship groups who was ever rude to me was a teenage girl. My son immediately told her to apologise to me and distanced himself from her thereafter.

What does this have to do with misogyny?
A teenage girl being rude doesn’t mean women aren’t raped and killed by men.

But, here I am falling into the man haters trap of 'men are worse, no women are and this is why.' It goes round on repeat in circles and is just so pointless.
Two women a week are killed by their partner or ex partner. The fact you think highlighting that and other horrific statistics is pointless is actually disgusting.

You don't actually hear any of this man hate nonsense in real life.
Because in real life men kill and rape women.

Really good post.

Im so sorry about your mother.

You have arrived defending your offspring

You are in a space that was one of the first online spaces that women did congregate to discuss things that bothered them. Not a place where women came to extol the virtues of the men in their lives

The men under discussion are those who show scant regard for women in many and varied ways

Any man who somehow manages not to be such a man is automatically excluded from all of those discussions

What you are actually asking is are you the right for for Mumsnet or does your being the protective mother of sons mean many.posts will always irritate you?

Thank you ❤️

This is the type of sick fuck that would tell you that they love women, by which they mean have a sexual interest in women and adolescent girls.

We have absolutely no hesitation in labelling men with a sexual interest in boys of this age as paedophiles, sexual interest in teenage girls is so widespread that the same does apply.

Oh yes. Well said. Very true!

See if you can spot the women on here:

https://madebyredrose.co.uk/map

Sadly, there’s even a special category for Police Officers. Of course, for all men, it's just the ones that have been caught and convicted...

I am so very sorry about your mum.

Thank you ❤️

I think its more likely that they've not really been affected to poor male behaviour to any great extent and have good husbands.

I am so sorry about your mum.

Thank you x

I'm quite sure that an adult man who has a sexual interest in 14yr year old girls would be considered a paedophile in most circles !!!

I'm quite sure that an man who has a sexual interest in 14yr year old girls would be considered a paedophile in most circles !!!

I thought it was so men "wouldn't saddle themselves..." a moment ago?
You think its a good idea for men to hear women's perspectives so they can avoid marriage and any criticism of them arising from it, rather than so they can moderate their behaviour to make marriage work.
Do you consider men incapable of behaving decently within marriage, or just unwilling, given you see the only way to avoid disappointing a woman is to steer clear of us?