Misandry and Mumsnet

[estrogone]

Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology? Would it be ok of it were the other way round.

As a woman and mother of sons, the attitudes and comments on MN border on hate speech and I think Mumsnet HQ should do something about it.

Is this really how we want to balance the scales?

E: spelling

I think, as I said, that really depends on the circumstances and the person involved.

I was recently completely alone with a broken down car with an AA man. I felt completely safe and very happy to see him. He was great and he got me home safely. It never crossed my mind he could assault me just because he's a man.

Alternatively, a few months ago I was in a quiet shop where a woman started acting really aggressively randomly. I definitely didn't feel safe in her company and left.

In general a man is more of a danger to women, other men and children than a woman is but it's unreasonable to assume all men are dangerous just because they're male.

I agree with you. They should be, and this is why it is always advisable to stick with the group and make sure everyone gets home, isn't it?

I strongly agree with you and I’m so sorry about your experiences.

I work with mostly men in Engineering, really decent men and they are absolutely wise to the behaviour of other men and the threat they can pose to women and they are much more vocal about it than women who are deeply in denial about these types of behaviour.

My husband is exactly the same as yours, his father was an abusive twat whereas DH is just a gem but he doesn’t make excuses for men in general, he knows the issues with male pattern behaviours well.

I don’t know if anyone read a book by the same author of the tattooist of auschwitz, I can’t remember the name of it, but there is a part of the story that really captures this very female type of behaviour about abusive men. The woman who is being badly mistreated by other prisoners raped in the night) fawns over her abuser. It is very hard for the other women experiencing the same to put up with her fawning because they are realistic about the experience whereas she is not. Because she is in denial she decides she is in love so she experiences the whole situation very differently to the other women.

In general a leopard is more of a danger to women, other men and children than a domestic cat is but it's unreasonable to assume all leopards are dangerous just because they're Pantheras.

Does this mean you're expressing bigotry and being unreasonable to say "Leopards are dangerous"? Should each human-leopard situation be separately evaluated? If you do that, of course, you will arrive at no general understanding of the relative dangers from leopards and pet cats. You'd have to treat all cats as equally dangerous.

How do you think we came to know which cats are more dangerous?

I don't understand the relevance of leopards as to why the fact I didn't find the AA man scary means I'm in denial about the danger posed by males or a misogynist which was suggested up thread.

That's probably due to your own, personal blind spot.

Maybe it is, or maybe it's because I know that the vast majority of men are good men.

How do you know which ones are good? If you’re walking down the street how do you know that man walking towards you is one of the good ones?

Additup your posts are very contradictory.

Who exactly do you have a difference of opinion with?

Do you agree with the OP that MN is full of misandry or do you recognise male pattern behaviour and recognise that not all men are like that because MNHQ have addressed that extremely well in their response to this thread and very many other posters share your view.

There is no widespread misandry on MN, there are some posters who find discussing male pattern behaviour so abhorrent that they just want the women who share their experiences to just stop talking about it because it really bothers them.

Exactly. How do you even know when you've married them. Gisèle Pelicot had not idea what her husband (or the scores of men who raped her) was like.

Indeed.
Obviously murder, rape and sexual assault are at the extreme end of the behaviour we’re talking about but there are also the smaller acts and attitudes to women which often get overlooked and minimised.

Of course there are good men out there, I know a few but my experience is that they are often the exception rather than the norm.

Would you say generally that the majority of women are good women as well?

I don't tend to walk around alone, or at night much any more, but the men I know cross over to opposite side of the road or drop far back if they notice a women walking alone.

Obviously, no one can know who around them has the potential to hurt them. Male or female.

The OP's (long gone) question was: 'Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology?' It isn't acceptable to hate on men or women openly without apology.

And I shall post no further on this thread.

Oh and @WildGarlicSoupthe last time I was sexually assaulted was in broad daylight in a busy family pub - it was a Sunday afternoon. I was there with my husband and Son having had Sunday lunch.

Not all sexual assault happens when women are walking along at night.

Gotta love Mumsnet!

Several people responded actually. I was directly replying to a comment that suggested about 33% of men commit violent crimes in the UK, to which my reply was relevant and fact checked.

Your facts exclude domestic violence and possibly also use a per year rather than a lifetime percentage. It rises to 15% of the population when we include DV (and why wouldn't we?) and look at lifetime offending. Which is only logical when you consider up to 40% of people will have been the victim of violence as some point in their life. Because its not likely that 1% of the population have got round them all, is it?

Reported.

Reported for what exactly? There was nothing offensive in that post.

Wait what? So we can't generalise that men commit rape and so we're wary of a lot of men because of this, but we can generalise that some (highly trained) women can stand up to a violent man so therefore they all should be able to?

Make it make sense?

You absolutely can generalise about men committing far more rapes than women and loads of people are doing exactly that in this very thread.

Actually, I think they aren't trained. It was decided a fair while ago that overpowering crims is such a chaotic thing that you can't give people a set of holds that mean they win every fight. So they wing it. (I'm told.)

If such training did exist then women could get that training so they could walk men home. Or do you think women are inherently less good at overpowering crims?

It’s not a generalisation. It’s a fact.
Under UK law you need a penis to commit rape.

They are trained. I know someone currently training to be a police officer.
However, that doesn’t take away from the fact that the vast majority of men are stronger and more powerful than the average woman. Therefore men are more likely to pose a physical threat to women.

More men than women suffer serious assaults.
The vast majority of people who assault them are men.
The vast majority of people who assault women are men, too.
Therefore I think it's reasonable to draw a conclusion about men.
You'll find that men draw the same conclusion.

The only men who claim not to share this conclusion are men complaining at women for surfacing this general conclusion.
I doubt they complain at men saying the same things.
That's because they're misogynists attempting to control women.
Fuck them.