In-laws shared beds with 4 year old DD and used my bedroom while babysitting

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I’ve changed my name because I’ve told a couple of people in real life about this and don’t want the link.

My DH and I have been away for a couple of nights without the kids (9 and 4). His parents looked after the kids the last two nights. We have 3 double bedrooms and then one kid’s bedroom with bunk beds.

We had one of the doubles set up as the spare room that the in laws always sleep in, with the usual fresh bedding etc. The second double has my 9 year old in. The third double is mine and my husband’s bedroom, the bedroom with bunk beds is where my 4 year old sleeps.

On the second night my DH parents (my children’s grandparents) decided that my 4 year old should sleep in the spare room with Grandpa (my FIL). My MIL got into my and DH bed (our bedroom not ready for guests, no clean bedding, things like medication left out).

I’m furious. Partially because I don’t think it’s appropriate for a grandfather to decide to sleep in a bed with his granddaughter who is 4. I’ve asked her whether it was ok. She understands the PANTS rules. She said that grandpa kissed her on the lips.

Secondly my MIL getting into my bed is a massive breach of privacy.

I don’t like my PIL so that may be clouding my judgement, but how they acted isn’t ok, right? What do I (my DH) do?

Sending you a big hug from a fellow survivor. My guts churned when I read this thread, hope this little girl is safe.

You havent done a very good fact finding mission before jumping to accusing the grandparents of being paedos have you?

I suspect they were all knackered after your younger ones antics the first night and were in survival mode by the second. I wouldn't kiss my kids on the lips, but i know some people do.

Trust your instinct. Thank you to people who have shared such deeply personal experiences and shame on the women who have jumped on the OP to feel superior. I still say, SA is actually not relevant in this context. Normal expectations are that grown adult men do not take a small child into a bed alone, do not choose to sleep with a small child when they are married and have been given a guest room to share with their wife. You should not have to lay out your expectations to relatives entrusted with your child on this. A line was crossed for whatever reason. The nastiness of some of these posters is astounding. Regardless of his intention, he crossed a line and abused the trust of her parents. How can people.not get that? It's like saying it,'s the OPs fault he gave her a cigarette because she hadn't told him not to. Sometimes we trust people and they abuse it, regardless of whether that is giving sweets when we dont want them to or giving them LSD. The basis is the same.

A lot of posters on MN live in some sort of Enid-Blyton-book bubble where bad things never happen and all families are good and loving. Well, they just live in a bubble, and at the same time enjoy exclaiming over and shaming those who have different experiences of life or just read the news, etc.

I’m in 2 minds here- my dd never stayed in her own bed so the in laws would never have had her for a sleep over if they thought she had to stay in her own bed at theirs. But it’s always been my mil, I trust my fil completely but I think they just wouldn’t have him do that, which is sensible.

Over dinner, Op, ask how well everyone slept.
Ask DPIL how they managed to get sustained sleep.
It could be that your children remember only what occurred while they were awake.

Leave your DH to talk another day to his folks about exactly what happened and how you felt.

Grandparents need sleep. They often can not lift sleeping kids back to rooms.
My SIL's family all kiss on the lips; unusual but not odd for many.

I think there has been a lot of over reaction here and I am a grandma. I used to look after my grandson a lot as he was growing up and he often would sleep in my bed, purely so I could get a nights sleep as he was such a poor sleeper. Kissing children on the lips is a generational thing although something I would never do and don’t think anyone else should.
I would not make a huge issue with the in laws over this but not have them looking after the children on their own again, because you need to have complete confidence in people who have responsibility for your children and clearly you don’t, which is absolutely fine.

You'd have thought the MIL would have slept in the same bed as your daughter, rather than the FIL, if that's what was needed. That's the bit I don't understand. I would share a bed with my great niece to get her to sleep, but my husband wouldn't, even though I'd trust him implicitly. Its not appropriate. And yes, I know women do awful things too, but this is the part that dosent make sense to me.

It’s usually better to read the thread, the op already said the child wanted her grandfather,

It's usually better to make sure you have fully understood the OP's entire point before chastising another poster for missing something.

The OP wrote:
Apparently my 4 year old asked Grandpa to help her get to sleep on the second night. But in my head that doesn’t mean ‘spend all night in bed together and MIL goes to sleep in my bed’

The OP's point was that just because the child asked for Grandpa to help her go to sleep, didn't mean it was appropriate for him and his wife to decide that he'd spend the whole night in bed alone with the 4 year old.

And many of us have said that lying alongside a grandchild to help them get to sleep often results in us falling asleep, too. It's certainly happened to me (and happens to me DD when she's getting my DGD to sleep!)

There's no indication that FIL intend to sleep next to her all night.

I find it hard to understand how anyone thinks it’s appropriate for an adult man (who is not the child’s father) to sleep alone with a 4 year old girl. Does FIL not feel awkward about that? They both clearly lack boundaries and that is a red flag on its own.

I can see how this would happen….

Granddaughter cant sleep and wants to be with grandad who I assume isn't sprightly enough to be climbing up into the top bunk bed and no doubt wouldn’t want to spend the night there other, so the decision is made he’d co-sleep with her in the spare room and Grandma would move and sleep in the OP’s room.

Both my children have co-slept with their grandparents during sleepovers over the years. Sometimes the children feel that little more vulnerable when they aren’t with their parents and want the security of not being alone overnight.

My children are also both lip kissers. From the way you are talking though I assume this isn’t the case for your daughter and so it’s been led by FIL? In that case I can understand your frustration as it would have meant your daughter was put in a position where she had to do something she wasn’t comfortable with.

Would you be this angry if MIL had shared the bed with your daughter instead of FIL?

Just be mindful that if you make any hint that you think your FIL has sexually abused your daughter when the whole thing could be completely innocent, then that accusation can never be put back in the box and the implications will be huge.

However, your priority has to be advocating for your daughter if you feel something untoward has occurred.

There's no indication that FIL intend to sleep next to her all night.

Except Op puts this
decided that my 4 year old should sleep in the spare room with Grandpa

Where presumably there is just one double bed.

There's some indication.

FIL put her in his and the MIL's bed, presumably fine with her falling asleep there and knowing there may not be room for all 3 of them. The FIL was lying beside her. He could have sat up and read to her, and/or told the 4 year old that the MIL would sleep with her.

It's up to the OP to ask about the series of events to see how they feel about this. But from a safeguarding and common sense point of view, the FIL and MIL seemed to have not made sensible decisions here, if only to ensure that the FIL doesn't get suspected as is exactly what happened.

Sorry, I have to weigh in again on this. The 4 year old asked for her grandpa? That doesn’t matter. Grooming means that the child is made to think this is what he or she wants. He could have planted the idea in her head at any time during the day, oh grandpa will give you the goodnight cuddle tonight, etc. And as for the theory re “any man but biological father is a risk”, this is also not true I’m afraid. My biological father was my abuser and it happened almost exactly as described in the OP. Wake up, everyone. This is way more common than you think. I’m not in any way having a go at the OP here btw, just blown away and really shocked by some of the naive responses on this thread.

A 4 year old may want to eat chocolate ice cream and sprinkles in their parent's bed at bedtime. Does that mean the adult on duty should allow it?

A trite example but the point is the same; adults ultimately have to make decisions for 4 year olds taking into account their best interests, including safeguarding, and in this case also the sleeping arrangements that the OP had left them with.

Firstly, I would want to know if he kissed her in the bed, I think this matters.
Does DD seem ok today? Is she still reacting to grandad in her usual way? Is she quieter than usual?

Then I would have to talk to the grandparents along the lines of "I'm not happy about
the change in the sleeping arrangements. I'm not accusing you of anything here but we made arrangements and you broke them. If DD goes into school and reports that she slept with grandad to her teacher then that might be taken further. I think you made an error of judgement here and I want to be clear that this will never happen again".

Also be prepared for what might happen when DD discloses this at school? Because she might mention it and the school might approach SS to complete a safeguarding investigation.
If that happens they will want to know what you have done to protect your daughter. They won't be impressed if you've just pretended it never happened or denied any risk.

I agree that whether he recognises it or not, grandad has chipped away at boundaries here. Your DD now thinks it's ok to kiss grandad on the lips (potentially in bed too!) and she thinks it's fine to share a bed with him.

But the sleeping in his bed doesn’t necessarily increase the chance of abuse.

Of course it increases the chance of abuse, how can you not see this?

• It's a huge chunk of time when they are alone together, with no expected interruption.
• It's 'condoned' by the MIL as she's in another bed
• It creates a private, shared and emotionally intimate time between them
• Sharing a bed means touching, even if accidental, is likely.
• It gives the abuser (and I'm not saying the FIL here is one) access to an unconscious child
• it's relaxing time, so the child is disarmed

Very different to time alone if the MIL has popped out. Yes a paedophile is likely to abuse even without sleeping together, but as I've said before on here, many of them play the long game. They abuse. And they are manipulative and won't take risks. They'll test out boundaries, of the child and of others around. Research shows that many are not just going to physically strike the first possible chance they get.

So yes, while you do have to trust people and can't prevent every single possible opportunity, you sure as dammit can make sure that statistically you have done what you can to mitigate the risk and reduce the opportunities.

Wouldn't most adults lie down on the bed until the child was asleep & then go to their own room?

Presumably this wouldn't work with the bunk beds, but then it might have been better to settle her in mum & dad's room & then go back to the spare with MIL?

I'm wondering how unsettled she was for the decision to be made that an adult would sleep with her all night?

I mean our young kids went to bed before us and admittedly we might on occasions have fallen asleep on the bed whilst waiting for them to doze off, but the decision to sleep with them was never made from the off iyswim.

It is just not appropriate, if anything else he makes himself vulnerable. Most normal humans accept this without a hint of saying abuse actually took place or was intended, it is weird whatever. In the context of the OP where it isnt a given that this wis the norm with grandpa, it is not normal to sleep in a bed with a child as an adult man. Stop fucking minimalising this FGS.

Thank you for all the messages. I read them all and took everything in.

DH and I spoke to my PIL yesterday evening about it and made it clear we are not happy and it was not OK. They got upset and defensive, as expected. My MIL said she had health problems (we weren’t aware of this) and so she couldn’t cope with the lack of sleep. It’s very clear to us they can’t look after the kids again.

My DD seemed fine yesterday. Her normal self. I need to chat to her at a time when she’s calm and on her own. While I’m sure nothing happened, of course I absolutely need to probe it further with her.

And yes this is a good point. The PIL said that my DD wanted to be in bed with grandpa. But I said back that she’s 4, she doesn’t get to make decisions. We are the adults and need to make the right decisions for her.

OP, this sounds like a good, if difficult outcome. It's so much better to confront problematic situations and to do it quickly.

You've only listened to the people who agreed with you and shown no empathy or understanding to your in-laws who were trying to cope with your children best they could to give you a break. It’s obvious you don’t like them and are twisting things, not nice!