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Ukraine Invasion: Part 47

989 replies

MagicFox · 25/01/2024 13:25

Welcome to thread 47. Thanks as usual to all for the information, guidance and solidarity.

**
Agreed thread guidance:

A. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events

B. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content

C. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful

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Thread gallery
221
blueshoes · 22/02/2024 22:16

notimagain · 22/02/2024 13:01

Not wishing to minimise the risks or be an apologist for the Russians the use of language and some of the subtleties behind a couple of those airborne incidents is quite important:

In the Black Sea Russia has now fired missiles at a British Rivet Joint,

AFAIK the expression used to describe by officialdom to describe that incident has always been "released" rather than "fired", or "fired at"...depending on details (which we don't know) the two acts aren't necessarily on the same level when it comes to agression/hostile acts...

they poured fuel over & struck a US Reaper

I think one whole reason politicians like the idea of using Reaper or similar is to avoid having to come up with anything other than a strongly worded response if the intelligence gathering asset gets damaged or knocked down...(and of course the US happily shot down a Chinese unmanned asset a few months backs).

It's this sort of incident that gives the politicians (and others) nightmares.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

notimagain, appreciate the explanation about how these incidents are not on the same level of hostility. Knocking surveillance assets out of the sky which are thought to be spying on you are probably fairer game of sorts.

The article which Ducks linked to below does use the word 'release' in relation to an older incident. So you were right about the language.

https://apnews.com/article/france-aircraft-russia-black-sea-lecornu-c04f87c1be08967ab4fbcd0591625559

In 2022, a Russian fighter jet released a missile near a British air force RC-135 Rivet Joint surveillance aircraft that was flying in international airspace over the Black Sea,

DrBlackbird · 22/02/2024 23:02

Little late but joining to catch up.

Very upsetting about Navalny. Despicable.

Igotjelly · 22/02/2024 23:07

Well the useful idiots are out in force on the other Ukraine thread that’s popped up 😑 not even sophisticated enough to be trolls….

MagicFox · 23/02/2024 07:15

@notimagain posting just because I thought you'd find this interesting: warontherocks.com/2024/02/the-tip-of-the-american-spear-how-the-united-kingdom-could-pursue-military-specialization/

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MagicFox · 23/02/2024 07:28

Igotjelly · 22/02/2024 23:07

Well the useful idiots are out in force on the other Ukraine thread that’s popped up 😑 not even sophisticated enough to be trolls….

Oh yes the one that's written the classic Zelensky diatribe showed up on this one a few days back too

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notimagain · 23/02/2024 07:37

@MagicFox

Thanks for the article...brutally honest in places....

MagicFox · 23/02/2024 07:39

Definitely. But it does make sense re doubling down on key capabilities as the uk contribution to a broader nato-led force

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notimagain · 23/02/2024 08:51

MagicFox · 23/02/2024 07:39

Definitely. But it does make sense re doubling down on key capabilities as the uk contribution to a broader nato-led force

True, but as far as UK forces go regardless of modern realities the service chiefs ensure that inter service rivalry makes giving up anything a tough and lengthy process...and I don't think we have time for that.

Whatever the plan just don't suggest the Royal Navy gives up it's carrier(s) again............Some in dark blue or ex wearers of the dark blue even to this day still gripe about the 1966 Defence White Paper and the RAF stealing "their" aircraft...

I'm not joking with that comment, I've encountered some people with serious chips on shoulders over that episode well this side of the year 2000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_Defence_White_Paper

DancesWithDucks · 23/02/2024 09:47

Kyiv Independent Telegram Highlights

⚡️US, UK reportedly https://kyivindependent.com/us-uk-reportedly-endorse-dutch-pm-mark-rutte/ endorse Dutch PM Mark Rutte as next NATO Secretary General. [well, he's sensible, sadly favours Big Business at the expense of ordinary people, and is pro-Ukraine. But Kaja Kallas would have been better imo]

‘Our reserves will run out:’ Ukrainian artillery sounds alarm on Western shell shortage https://kyivindependent.com/on-the-front-line-of-ukraines-shell-hunger-as-effects-of-congress-blockade-bite/
Despite having plenty of guns themselves, Ukraine is running out of shells, and the situation is slowly growing desperate.

⚡️Russia using https://kyivindependent.com/russia-firing-shells-recently-produced-shells-on-front-line-officer-says/ freshly produced shells as supply 'running smoothly,' Ukrainian officer says.

⚡️ABC News: Ukraine could face https://kyivindependent.com/abc-news-ukraine-could-face-catastrophic-arms-shortage-by-late-march-officials-say/ 'catastrophic' arms shortage within weeks, US officials say.

⚡️Bundestag votes https://kyivindependent.com/bundestag-votes-against-taurus-missiles-for-ukraine-supports-motion-on-sending-long-range-missiles/ against Taurus missiles for Ukraine, supports sending 'necessary long-range missiles.'

⚡️ German defense committee chief Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann says https://kyivindependent.com/german-mp-believes-putin-can-attack-germany/ Russia's attack on Germany a realistic scenario.

⚡️Denmark signs https://kyivindependent.com/denmark-signs-10-year-security-agreement-with-ukraine/ 10-year security agreement with Ukraine. "If we don't stand together, Ukraine won't stand, and potentially Europe won't either," Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said.

⚡️Latvia to become first EU country to ban imports https://kyivindependent.com/latvia-to-become-first-eu-country-to-ban-imports-of-grain-from-russia-belarus/ of grain from Russia, Belarus.

⚡️ Hungarian FM visits Iran, signs trade agreement. https://kyivindependent.com/hungarian-fm-visits-iran-signs-trade-agreement/

⚡️Biden says US will impose sanctions https://kyivindependent.com/biden-says-us-will-impose-sanctions-against-putin-for-navalny-death/ against Putin for Navalny death.

Over 14 million people, nearly a third of Ukraine's population, have been forced to flee their homes in the two years since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the International Organization for Migration (IOM) reported on Feb. 22. https://kyivindependent.com/over-14-million-ukrainians-forced-to-flee-due-to-russian-invasion/

Yerevan has "frozen" its participation in the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) because it failed to uphold its objectives regarding Armenia, Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan told France 24 on Feb. 22. https://kyivindependent.com/pashinyan-armenia-freezes-participation-in-russian-led-security-coalition/

Ragnar Gudmundsson

WAR IN #UKRAINE - FEB 23, 2024
■ More engagements & increasedstrikes reported
■continues to sacrifice men & equipment for minuscule land gains; 1k casualties below previous days(!)
■ Record landbased equipment losses; weekly record of artillery losses matched
■ Poternet has added 370 names; identified KIAs approaching 72k

Denmark signs 10-year security agreement with Ukraine

"If we don't stand together, Ukraine won't stand, and potentially Europe won't either," Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said.

https://kyivindependent.com/denmark-signs-10-year-security-agreement-with-ukraine

DancesWithDucks · 23/02/2024 10:01

UNITED24 Media Telegram highlights

🇫🇷 France will host an international conference to support Ukraine, — office of the country's President Macron
Leaders of European states and members of governments are invited to the conference, which will take place shortly after the second anniversary of the start of the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.

The British government states that the new sanctions will include munitions and electronics manufacturers, as well as companies that trade in diamonds and oil, — Reuters.
Great Britain has added 50 new companies and individuals from Russia, as well as 2 Belarusian companies to the sanctions lists.
Among the sanctioned companies are the Perm Powder Plant, the airline "224 Pilot Squadron" and heads of "NOVATEK", the group of companies "ALROSA" and Ural Mining and Metallurgical Company. The list also included the Belarusian enterprises Precision Electromechanics Plant and Planar Joint Stock Company.

Italy expects to sign a bilateral agreement on security cooperation with Ukraine in the near future, Foreign Minister Antonio Tajani said.

The Czech Republic will no longer grant visas and residence permits to Russians and Belarusians due to the invasion of Ukraine.

Kirby, the coordinator of strategic communications of the National Security Council of the White House, said that the United States will announce additional sanctions against Iran in the coming days due to its supply of drones and other weapons to Russia.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine received a promised batch of dozens of M113 armored personnel carriers from Spain.
These armored personnel carriers were specially converted to evacuate the wounded from the battlefield.
"Dozens of these armored evacuation vehicles have already arrived in Ukraine. Several hundred more are expected in the near future." — Minister of Defense of Ukraine.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 47
Igotjelly · 23/02/2024 10:26

Whilst Rutte wouldn’t necessarily have been my first choice I do note the fact that it’s likely part of the Trump-proofing strategy for NATO and that’s welcomed. I would have welcomed a female Sec General but as we all know Trump is a pure misogynist and at this stage Trump-proofing is more important.

MagicFox · 23/02/2024 10:35

Yes I think his appt has a lot to do with the need for somebody good at diplomacy

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DancesWithDucks · 23/02/2024 10:38

Live: Ukraine Telegram Highlights

🇲🇩🇷🇺 On February 28, unrecognized Transnistria may ask Russia to include it in the Russian Federation, Moldova Liberă reports https://moldovalibera.md/tiraspol-ot-imeni-grazhdan-poprosit-putina-prinyat-pmr-v-sostav-rf-chego-opasaetsya-pridnestrovskaya-oppozicziya/
The leader of the Transnistrian Moldovan Republic, Vadim Krasnosilsky, is convening a congress of deputies of all levels (district, city, town and village councils) in Tiraspol, allegedly because of economic pressure from Moldova.

🇪🇺 EU Council approves 13th package of sanctions against Russia
The lists include 106 more individuals and 88 legal entities. The sanctions are aimed at the military and defense industry and those involved in arms supplies from the DPRK. The new sanctions will help "restrict access" to components for drones for the Russian military-industrial complex.
The restrictions are also aimed at representatives of the judiciary, politicians, and those responsible for the deportation and "re-education" of Ukrainian children.

The ideological processing of children from the occupied territories is funded by UNICEF, the United Nations Children's Fund.
Children from the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine were taken to summer camps in Belarus "for rehabilitation". The Belarusian Red Cross organized such trips in 2022-2023. And in 2022, this program was also co-financed by the UN Children's Fund UNICEF, according to a joint investigation https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-skhemy-ukrayinski-dity-bilorus/32831211.html by Schemes journalists and the Belarusian edition of Radio Liberty.
During such trips, children were taken to Belarusian military training grounds, given weapons, and given "ideological" lessons with anti-Ukrainian narratives.

Volodymyr Zelensky gave an interview to the American Fox News channel near the front line. The main theses:
▪️Ukraine's losses at the front are less than Russia's. For every Ukrainian soldier killed, there are five Russians.
▪️The war will stop when the whole world realizes what a threat Vladimir Putin is. Changing Russia from the inside is a "long and difficult path" because Putin understands only the language of force.
▪️Zelensky called on US President Joe Biden and Donald Trump to visit Ukraine to see with their own eyes what war looks like here.
▪️The U.S. Congress must make a decision on aid. Russia will not stop, and congressmen will "pay much more" in the future.

On the Ukrainian side of the border with Poland, agricultural equipment belonging to Ukrainian farmers that was blown up by the Russians is being brought to the border, presumably to demonstrate to the Poles the price at which Ukrainians get their grain https://t.me/liveukraine_media/18442

Тирасполь «от имени граждан» попросит Путина «принять ПМР в состав РФ»? Как это прокомментировали власти Молдовы

В Тирасполе на 28 февраля назначен «съезд депутатов всех уровней» — об этом в соцсетях сообщил приднестровский оппозиционер Геннадий Чорба. По мнению оппозиционера, на этом собрании «должна быть озвучена просьба "от имени граждан, проживающих на левом...

https://moldovalibera.md/tiraspol-ot-imeni-grazhdan-poprosit-putina-prinyat-pmr-v-sostav-rf-chego-opasaetsya-pridnestrovskaya-oppozicziya

DancesWithDucks · 23/02/2024 10:45

Can't believe the UNICEF is funding Belorussian indoctrination, if this report is true. Plus the UN money given to Gaza/Hamas, many millions, that was diverted into building the military underground complex. Plus the money given to them that was for Ukraine and has never got there.

They really are a bad organisation.

MagicFox · 23/02/2024 12:10

Sobering David Rothkopf piece :

A Vote for Trump Is a Vote for Putin—and a World in Danger

www.thedailybeast.com/a-vote-for-trump-is-a-vote-for-putinand-a-world-in-danger

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Igotjelly · 23/02/2024 12:42

Well this is quite depressing (Source is Sky News) just seeing the areas of Russian advance. Although it doesn't seem imminent I do worry about a sudden catastrophic collapse by Ukraine.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 47
DancesWithDucks · 23/02/2024 13:22

I think Ukraine has been setting up defense lines.

But yes, it's not going well at the moment.

Igotjelly · 23/02/2024 13:28

Of course to be clear though it would be Ukraine’s defences that would collapse it would 100% be our failure. If Ukraine falls it’s on the West’s collective conscience.

Natsku · 23/02/2024 13:37

The ideological processing of children from the occupied territories is funded by UNICEF, the United Nations Children's Fund.

Fucking hell. The bottle return machines over here have an option to donate your deposit to UNICEF instead of getting it back yourself, and advertised as helping Ukrainian children. If this is the way they're getting "helped" then I am really upset, I've been donating my bottle deposit money to them Angry

Sad article about a Finnish volunteer who fought and died for Ukraine. So brave of him, just a lad. His poor family https://yle.fi/a/74-20075975

The story of Kasper Alhoniemi — the first Finnish soldier to die fighting for Ukraine

Yle obtained extraordinary footage from the front lines in Ukraine to tell the story of a young man from Tampere who swapped a regular life in Finland for war in a foreign land.

https://yle.fi/a/74-20075975

blueshoes · 23/02/2024 14:48

DancesWithDucks · 23/02/2024 10:45

Can't believe the UNICEF is funding Belorussian indoctrination, if this report is true. Plus the UN money given to Gaza/Hamas, many millions, that was diverted into building the military underground complex. Plus the money given to them that was for Ukraine and has never got there.

They really are a bad organisation.

Unbelievable. Another reason not to donate to UNICEF.

blueshoes · 23/02/2024 18:14

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-february-22-2024

Key Takeaways:

  • Russian Security Council Deputy Chairperson Dmitry Medvedev said that Russia would likely have to seize Kyiv sooner or later while identifying Russia’s possible further territorial objectives in Ukraine.
  • Medvedev’s mention of Russia’s possible intentions to occupy Odesa may be worth noting in light of recent developments in the pro-Russian breakaway republic of Transnistria in Moldova, the southern tip of which is about 50 kilometers from the city.
  • Medvedev also described Russian plans to repress Ukrainian citizens in occupied Ukraine.
  • Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) leaders and Republic of Tatarstan Head Rustam Minnikhanov on February 21 and 22.
  • Ukrainian forces conducted another successful strike against a Russian training ground in occupied Kherson Oblast on February 21 and likely inflicted significant casualties.
  • Ukraine’s European and Western allies continue to ramp up their support for Ukraine.
  • Russian opposition outlet Proekt reported on February 22 that the Russian government has subjected at least 116,000 Russians to criminal and administrative charges since the start of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s fourth term in office in 2018.
  • Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated on February 22 that the Kremlin does not regard Russian military correspondents (voyenkory) and milbloggers as participants of the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine, shortly after the suicide of a prominent Russian milblogger on February 21.
  • Russian forces recently made confirmed advances near Bakhmut and Avdiivka.
  • A Russian insider source claimed that Russian officials have postponed creating Rosgvardia’s 1st Volunteer Corps from remaining Wagner Group detachments because of an ongoing rotation of former Wagner personnel in Africa.
  • Russia continues to export its state policies on systemic religious persecution to occupied Ukraine.
Ukraine Invasion: Part 47
DancesWithDucks · 23/02/2024 19:12

@notimagain

Ukraine's Defense Intelligence confirms the shooting down of Russian A-50 over the Sea of Azov

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1761086281893687500

[more info needed - some claims that actually the Russians shot down their own A-50!~]

MagicFox · 23/02/2024 19:52

Have you seen Liz Truss in the US talking absolute horseshit and advocating for trump? Wtf?!

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Igotjelly · 23/02/2024 19:57

MagicFox · 23/02/2024 19:52

Have you seen Liz Truss in the US talking absolute horseshit and advocating for trump? Wtf?!

They can keep her….

MagicFox · 23/02/2024 19:58

I hope they bloody do! I didn't think that highly of her before, but now....sheesh

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